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> at least be able to point to a way they’re abusing their power or are making a worse experience for customers Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Googl

> at least be able to point to a way they’re abusing their power or are making a worse experience for customers Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Google, that competed with their own, from their online store? Isn't this still the case even though they said last year they would eventually allow them again? If you tell Alexa, "buy me a chromecast", it orders you an Amazon fire stick instead.

scarface74 9y ago
They banned products that didn’t support Amazon Video. You could always buy Roku boxes. Would Apple sell third party products in their store that only supported Android or Windows? Can you buy an Alexa powered device at an Apple Store? Does Microsoft sell PS4 or Nintendo games at their store?
- ComputerGuru 9y ago
  Straw man argument. Apple doesn’t have a “general” marketplace that lets you sell almost anything under the sun. Neither is being a marketplace central to their business.
kylemh 9y ago
Google Products: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=chromecast https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Apple Products: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-GSM-Unlocked-32GB/dp/B01N9YOF3R/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1518899586&sr=1-1&keywords=apple+iphone+7 https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-GSM-Unlocked-32GB/dp/B01... https://www.neowin.net/news/amazon-extends-olive-branch-towards-google-plans-to-stock-chromecast https://www.neowin.net/news/amazon-extends-olive-branch-towa... > If you tell Alexa, "buy me a chromecast", it orders you an Amazon fire stick instead. Need a source on that.
- bduerst 9y ago
  The Apple iPhone isn't a competing product. Apple TV: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dmobile&field-keywords=apple+TV https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Those also aren't chromecasts showing in those search results that you linked to...
- Limb 9y ago
  None of the "Chomecast" products are Google products, in fact the very first product says this in the description: "Special note: this isn't a Chromecast" The iPhone while purchasable on Amazon, is not actually sold or shipped by Amazon.
- CharlesW 9y ago
  I just tried it: "I couldn't find anything for Chromecast. What else would you like?"
- alsetmusic 9y ago
  AppleTV was the device in question. It’s available now.
- wdr1 9y ago
  Not to be a dick, but you get a slew of sources with a cursory Google search. https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9439281/amazon-ban-apple-tv-chromecast-why https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9439281/amazon-ban-apple-... https://www.wired.com/2015/10/amazon-apple-tv-chromecast/ https://www.wired.com/2015/10/amazon-apple-tv-chromecast/ http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amazon-ban-apple-tv-google-chromecast-sales-report-article-1.2381709 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amazon-ban-apple-tv... And their more recent reversal: https://mashable.com/2017/12/14/amazon-to-sell-google-chromecast-apple-tv-two-years/#7H0qsN_tj5qT https://mashable.com/2017/12/14/amazon-to-sell-google-chrome...
  - austenallred 9y ago
    you could just as easily make the argument against Apple and Google in these instances for not allowing Prime Video on their platforms. Refusing to sell competitors’ products isn’t a very good case for antitrust when you can still buy them in hundreds of other places a click away.
    - asaph 9y ago
      It seems Amazon and Apple have settled their differences. Prime Video is now available on AppleTV. https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16741136/download-amazon-prime-video-apple-tv https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16741136/download-amazon-... And AppleTV is available for purchase on Amazon.com. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075NFX24M https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075NFX24M
    - bduerst 9y ago
      > Apple and Google in these instances for not allowing Prime Video on their platforms. They're allowed. Amazon is choosing not to support it...
  - drewmol 9y ago
    >Not to be a dick Do you consider the phrase 'not to be a pussy' inappropriate? Edit: did not mean to detract from the conversation, just see this phase used fairly commomly here, and I don't see why one is acceptable and one is not
- Buge 9y ago
  That "Google products" link doesn't show a single Google product.
discoursism 9y ago
This is sort of a good point. I hate this behavior on Amazon's part, and I want them to stop. I would like it if the US government compelled them to stop. The bigger thing to me is how they prevent their customers from using Chromecast solely to attempt to hurt their competitors' products. That is anti-competitive behavior, and in a better world, the US government would compel them to allow their users to stream via Chromecast. However, it's not that big of a deal if Amazon doesn't sell something. You just buy it somewhere else. I did not have any trouble acquiring a Chromecast when I wanted one, and I doubt anyone else did either. Using some kind of antitrust break-up to fix this would be like using a nuclear bomb to hammer in a nail. For a problem like this, a more targeted approach seems better, at least as an initial cut.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Who do you trust more to do the right thing? Private industry or the government? Lately, it seems like private industry has been more on the side of the Angels than the government. Private industry - especially consumer facing ones - seem to be a lot more accountable to the public than the government.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    That’s kind of a weird false dichotomy and the answer is “it depends”
    - scarface74 9y ago
      Not really, once you get the government involved in capitalism, even if it is well meaning, there are always unintended consequences. But in the real world, would Obama regulate tech companies? Would Trump regulate banks?
      - fjsolwmv 9y ago
        Read up on how antitrust law and labor law came into existence . The unfettered capitalism you love is actually quite fettered, and many people died for that right.
nobleach 9y ago
> Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Google Yes, and you can't buy Rigid or Ryobi tools at Lowes either. (even on their website). You also can't find a Pepsi machine at the Coke headquarters. (You can even be fired for being seen drinking Pepsi). There is nothing wrong with not carrying products that compete with your own. There is something wrong with blocking access to purchasing those products from other places though. Right now, people are free to go to Overstock.com (please), Walmart.com, Target.com, Apple.com... the list seems endless.
- bduerst 9y ago
  What about buying DeWalt, Bosch, Kobalt, Hitachi, Bostitch, Paslode, and Irwin tools at Lowes? Is Pepsi headquarters even open to the public? Amazon didn't just ban it from their store, they also banned any of their sellers from selling it.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    I use to be a part time fitness instructor and when I taught at the Coke headquarters I was told by my coordinator not to bring in a water bottle that wasn’t a Coke brand. If you go the World of Coke in Atlanta, you won’t see Pepsi products.
    - nobleach 9y ago
      Yep, I have a couple of family members who've done really well working for Coke throughout the years. The phrase, "they put the 'cult' in 'culture'" applies. I think it has done really well for them though. When you buy into culture, you become an automatic salesperson.
  - nobleach 9y ago
    The latter part about not allowing their sellers to sell Chromecast is reprehensible, and I had no idea that was happening! Regarding DeWalt, Bosch, etc, I'd highly expect Kobalt to have better product placement (at Lowes). Is that fair?
htormey 9y ago
In the case of google: Didn’t they do that in response to google blocking certain services from Alexa?
- bduerst 9y ago
  No. Alexa runs on it's own hardware. Where did you hear that?
  - njwi332 9y ago
    GP is probably referring to the fact that google blocked the youtube app from working on Alexa devices. https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/05/google-is-pulling-youtube-from-echo-show-and-fire-tv-as-feud-with-amazon-continues/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/05/google-is-pulling-youtube-...
    - bduerst 9y ago
      That happened because Amazon violated Youtube's TOS by stripping key services like subscriptions, channels, etc. Amazon can implement Youtube as long as they follow the TOS, which they're choosing not to. It's a rule set that everyone has to follow when using Youtube, and isn't singling out Amazon the same way that Amazon is singling out Apple and Google.
kr39oe82 9y ago
Chrome cast is supposedly coming back https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-14/amazon-to-sell-google-chromecast-after-youtube-pulled-from-echos https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-14/amazon-to... But yeah “monopoly.” There is literally no where else to buy them online or otherwise Damn you, Amazon!!!11
- akoncius 9y ago
  for case to be “antitrust” does not requires to be monopoly as such. it can be a company which is dominant in its market by big margin. Microsoft got involved in multiple antitrust cases, even if there are alternatives (mac, linux), but MS has captured majority of market. So I believe Amazon captured majority of online shop market too, so it can abuse situation in their favor.
  - UncleEntity 9y ago
    It isn't illegal to be a monopoly, it's illegal to abuse your monopoly position. Which is what MS got in trouble for. Big difference which people often forget.
- Buge 9y ago
  I wonder when it's going to happen.
mieseratte 9y ago
> Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Google, that competed with their own, from their online store? I witnessed something similar at a former company[0] I had worked for. We had mobile apps for a reading product that could, theoretically, compete with Amazon's book business. Sort of a Netflix for books. Successfully launched both on Apple and Google's marketplaces, the app worked, had traction, wasn't a sketchy business or anything. We experienced what we took to calling a soft-rejection. The app itself was approved but we were not able to launch / have it available on any of Amazon's devices. Now, you might be willing to write it off as the vagaries of dealing with a billion dollar corporation, your typical "Google locked me out and I'm SOL" thing. However, the owners of this company had sold a previous business[1] to Amazon. They had contacts and relationships at Amazon, decently high-level too such that were it an "oops, edge case" it should have been easily dealt with. Silence. They were stonewalled. [0] - Grain of Salt: I was not on the mobile team, but we were a small operation, ate lunch daily, very open culture from the CEO to the junior folks. We talked about this a lot. This was also 5+ years ago, and I know of few of my coworkers lurk so please correct me if my memory is corrupted. [1] - Given our very good team atmosphere, we ended up hearing a bit of history from the founders about the Amazon acquisition. From what I understand, it was extremely cut-throat and underhanded on Amazon's part. A former coworker succinctly summed it up as "The only relationship you want with Amazon is to be their customer."
jasonlotito 9y ago
> If you tell Alexa, "buy me a chromecast", it orders you an Amazon fire stick instead. This is not true. I just tried it.
pbalau 9y ago
I used to use an Apple tablet to watch things in bed. I could not buy a day pass for Sky Sports, nor rent/buy things on Amazon Prime Video from the apps. That worked all right with the xbox apps and it works now on the Android tablet I replaced the Apple one with.
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scarface74 9y ago

They banned products that didn’t support Amazon Video. You could always buy Roku boxes. Would Apple sell third party products in their store that only supported Android or Windows? Can you buy an Alexa powered device at an Apple Store? Does Microsoft sell PS4 or Nintendo games at their store?

ComputerGuru 9y ago
Straw man argument. Apple doesn’t have a “general” marketplace that lets you sell almost anything under the sun. Neither is being a marketplace central to their business.

kylemh 9y ago

Google Products: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=chromecast https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Apple Products: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-GSM-Unlocked-32GB/dp/B01N9YOF3R/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1518899586&sr=1-1&keywords=apple+iphone+7 https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-GSM-Unlocked-32GB/dp/B01... https://www.neowin.net/news/amazon-extends-olive-branch-towards-google-plans-to-stock-chromecast https://www.neowin.net/news/amazon-extends-olive-branch-towa... > If you tell Alexa, "buy me a chromecast", it orders you an Amazon fire stick instead. Need a source on that.

bduerst 9y ago
The Apple iPhone isn't a competing product. Apple TV: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dmobile&field-keywords=apple+TV https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3... Those also aren't chromecasts showing in those search results that you linked to...
Limb 9y ago
None of the "Chomecast" products are Google products, in fact the very first product says this in the description: "Special note: this isn't a Chromecast" The iPhone while purchasable on Amazon, is not actually sold or shipped by Amazon.
CharlesW 9y ago
I just tried it: "I couldn't find anything for Chromecast. What else would you like?"
alsetmusic 9y ago
AppleTV was the device in question. It’s available now.
wdr1 9y ago
Not to be a dick, but you get a slew of sources with a cursory Google search. https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9439281/amazon-ban-apple-tv-chromecast-why https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9439281/amazon-ban-apple-... https://www.wired.com/2015/10/amazon-apple-tv-chromecast/ https://www.wired.com/2015/10/amazon-apple-tv-chromecast/ http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amazon-ban-apple-tv-google-chromecast-sales-report-article-1.2381709 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amazon-ban-apple-tv... And their more recent reversal: https://mashable.com/2017/12/14/amazon-to-sell-google-chromecast-apple-tv-two-years/#7H0qsN_tj5qT https://mashable.com/2017/12/14/amazon-to-sell-google-chrome...
- austenallred 9y ago
  you could just as easily make the argument against Apple and Google in these instances for not allowing Prime Video on their platforms. Refusing to sell competitors’ products isn’t a very good case for antitrust when you can still buy them in hundreds of other places a click away.
  - asaph 9y ago
    It seems Amazon and Apple have settled their differences. Prime Video is now available on AppleTV. https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16741136/download-amazon-prime-video-apple-tv https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16741136/download-amazon-... And AppleTV is available for purchase on Amazon.com. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075NFX24M https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075NFX24M
  - bduerst 9y ago
    > Apple and Google in these instances for not allowing Prime Video on their platforms. They're allowed. Amazon is choosing not to support it...
- drewmol 9y ago
  >Not to be a dick Do you consider the phrase 'not to be a pussy' inappropriate? Edit: did not mean to detract from the conversation, just see this phase used fairly commomly here, and I don't see why one is acceptable and one is not
Buge 9y ago
That "Google products" link doesn't show a single Google product.

discoursism 9y ago

This is sort of a good point. I hate this behavior on Amazon's part, and I want them to stop. I would like it if the US government compelled them to stop. The bigger thing to me is how they prevent their customers from using Chromecast solely to attempt to hurt their competitors' products. That is anti-competitive behavior, and in a better world, the US government would compel them to allow their users to stream via Chromecast. However, it's not that big of a deal if Amazon doesn't sell something. You just buy it somewhere else. I did not have any trouble acquiring a Chromecast when I wanted one, and I doubt anyone else did either. Using some kind of antitrust break-up to fix this would be like using a nuclear bomb to hammer in a nail. For a problem like this, a more targeted approach seems better, at least as an initial cut.

scarface74 9y ago
Who do you trust more to do the right thing? Private industry or the government? Lately, it seems like private industry has been more on the side of the Angels than the government. Private industry - especially consumer facing ones - seem to be a lot more accountable to the public than the government.
- austenallred 9y ago
  That’s kind of a weird false dichotomy and the answer is “it depends”
  - scarface74 9y ago
    Not really, once you get the government involved in capitalism, even if it is well meaning, there are always unintended consequences. But in the real world, would Obama regulate tech companies? Would Trump regulate banks?
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      Read up on how antitrust law and labor law came into existence . The unfettered capitalism you love is actually quite fettered, and many people died for that right.

nobleach 9y ago

> Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Google Yes, and you can't buy Rigid or Ryobi tools at Lowes either. (even on their website). You also can't find a Pepsi machine at the Coke headquarters. (You can even be fired for being seen drinking Pepsi). There is nothing wrong with not carrying products that compete with your own. There is something wrong with blocking access to purchasing those products from other places though. Right now, people are free to go to Overstock.com (please), Walmart.com, Target.com, Apple.com... the list seems endless.

bduerst 9y ago
What about buying DeWalt, Bosch, Kobalt, Hitachi, Bostitch, Paslode, and Irwin tools at Lowes? Is Pepsi headquarters even open to the public? Amazon didn't just ban it from their store, they also banned any of their sellers from selling it.
- scarface74 9y ago
  I use to be a part time fitness instructor and when I taught at the Coke headquarters I was told by my coordinator not to bring in a water bottle that wasn’t a Coke brand. If you go the World of Coke in Atlanta, you won’t see Pepsi products.
  - nobleach 9y ago
    Yep, I have a couple of family members who've done really well working for Coke throughout the years. The phrase, "they put the 'cult' in 'culture'" applies. I think it has done really well for them though. When you buy into culture, you become an automatic salesperson.
- nobleach 9y ago
  The latter part about not allowing their sellers to sell Chromecast is reprehensible, and I had no idea that was happening! Regarding DeWalt, Bosch, etc, I'd highly expect Kobalt to have better product placement (at Lowes). Is that fair?

htormey 9y ago

In the case of google: Didn’t they do that in response to google blocking certain services from Alexa?

bduerst 9y ago
No. Alexa runs on it's own hardware. Where did you hear that?
- njwi332 9y ago
  GP is probably referring to the fact that google blocked the youtube app from working on Alexa devices. https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/05/google-is-pulling-youtube-from-echo-show-and-fire-tv-as-feud-with-amazon-continues/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/05/google-is-pulling-youtube-...
  - bduerst 9y ago
    That happened because Amazon violated Youtube's TOS by stripping key services like subscriptions, channels, etc. Amazon can implement Youtube as long as they follow the TOS, which they're choosing not to. It's a rule set that everyone has to follow when using Youtube, and isn't singling out Amazon the same way that Amazon is singling out Apple and Google.

kr39oe82 9y ago

Chrome cast is supposedly coming back https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-14/amazon-to-sell-google-chromecast-after-youtube-pulled-from-echos https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-14/amazon-to... But yeah “monopoly.” There is literally no where else to buy them online or otherwise Damn you, Amazon!!!11

akoncius 9y ago
for case to be “antitrust” does not requires to be monopoly as such. it can be a company which is dominant in its market by big margin. Microsoft got involved in multiple antitrust cases, even if there are alternatives (mac, linux), but MS has captured majority of market. So I believe Amazon captured majority of online shop market too, so it can abuse situation in their favor.
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  It isn't illegal to be a monopoly, it's illegal to abuse your monopoly position. Which is what MS got in trouble for. Big difference which people often forget.
Buge 9y ago
I wonder when it's going to happen.

mieseratte 9y ago

> Didn't Amazon ban products from Apple and Google, that competed with their own, from their online store? I witnessed something similar at a former company[0] I had worked for. We had mobile apps for a reading product that could, theoretically, compete with Amazon's book business. Sort of a Netflix for books. Successfully launched both on Apple and Google's marketplaces, the app worked, had traction, wasn't a sketchy business or anything. We experienced what we took to calling a soft-rejection. The app itself was approved but we were not able to launch / have it available on any of Amazon's devices. Now, you might be willing to write it off as the vagaries of dealing with a billion dollar corporation, your typical "Google locked me out and I'm SOL" thing. However, the owners of this company had sold a previous business[1] to Amazon. They had contacts and relationships at Amazon, decently high-level too such that were it an "oops, edge case" it should have been easily dealt with. Silence. They were stonewalled. [0] - Grain of Salt: I was not on the mobile team, but we were a small operation, ate lunch daily, very open culture from the CEO to the junior folks. We talked about this a lot. This was also 5+ years ago, and I know of few of my coworkers lurk so please correct me if my memory is corrupted. [1] - Given our very good team atmosphere, we ended up hearing a bit of history from the founders about the Amazon acquisition. From what I understand, it was extremely cut-throat and underhanded on Amazon's part. A former coworker succinctly summed it up as "The only relationship you want with Amazon is to be their customer."

jasonlotito 9y ago

> If you tell Alexa, "buy me a chromecast", it orders you an Amazon fire stick instead. This is not true. I just tried it.

pbalau 9y ago

I used to use an Apple tablet to watch things in bed. I could not buy a day pass for Sky Sports, nor rent/buy things on Amazon Prime Video from the apps. That worked all right with the xbox apps and it works now on the Android tablet I replaced the Apple one with.

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