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Yes, it's unfortunate that you can articulate the problem so well and still not see it for what it really is. But in the interest of carrying on, I am copy past

Yes, it's unfortunate that you can articulate the problem so well and still not see it for what it really is. But in the interest of carrying on, I am copy pasting one of my replies - In isolation, yes, you are very right. But history is anything but that, and there is always a context and reason for why things are the way they are. I am from India, and I know bias when I see it. Classism and racism is systemic in India and whether you want to believe me or not, a person from a religion or upper caste will prefer a person from the same group. I am not going to claim that this exact same thing happens in the US, but I will not believe that it doesn't happen at all. The thing is that the memo even mentions the problems with inherent bias, and then mentions that we need to have "open" dialogue. The open dialogue is hard to happen when one group has been supressed for generations. What are you going to tell them? - Ok, we are sorry for what we have done, now we are going to be equal and you can compete for the same things? One group is dirt poor and disatvantaged, and the other has always enjoyed enough wealth to get proper education. How is that level playing field? Minorities need to be given a hand up, at least for a generation to really make a level playing field.

zo1 9y ago
>"What are you going to tell them? - Ok, we are sorry for what we have done, now we are going to be equal and you can compete for the same things? One group is dirt poor and disatvantaged, and the other has always enjoyed enough wealth to get proper education. How is that level playing field?" Okay, setting aside the ethical and moral implications. The effects that you are trying to fix are impossible to unravel from everything else. No one is even attempting to unravel it, and are simply using race, wealth and gender. No one bothers to think something as simple as "oh - you're a poor white male whose family has been living in a trailer park for generations without education - let's try give you a leg-up" over any random black-female. That is the fundamental problem and we're all beating around the bush. You can not fix cosmic injustice. It's done, and short of time-travel or planetary-sized super-computers, we can not untangle the mess of consequences it has caused. Anything less is just playing lip-service while neglecting the truly-needy.
pokemongoaway 9y ago
In isolation? Where is any of this in isolation - is there an island with a politics laboratory somewhere? And yes, I've been to India and the truth is the same: the only way to stop being racist and sexist is to stop. Not to institute sexist and racist policies of "women aren't good enough so we must force more to be hired in professions they don't prefer" and "blacks aren't good enough so we need to let them in when their grades are lower than every one else's." Minorities need to be given a hand? You mean we need equal outcomes and minority opinions like Damore's are not welcome?

zo1 9y ago

>"What are you going to tell them? - Ok, we are sorry for what we have done, now we are going to be equal and you can compete for the same things? One group is dirt poor and disatvantaged, and the other has always enjoyed enough wealth to get proper education. How is that level playing field?" Okay, setting aside the ethical and moral implications. The effects that you are trying to fix are impossible to unravel from everything else. No one is even attempting to unravel it, and are simply using race, wealth and gender. No one bothers to think something as simple as "oh - you're a poor white male whose family has been living in a trailer park for generations without education - let's try give you a leg-up" over any random black-female. That is the fundamental problem and we're all beating around the bush. You can not fix cosmic injustice. It's done, and short of time-travel or planetary-sized super-computers, we can not untangle the mess of consequences it has caused. Anything less is just playing lip-service while neglecting the truly-needy.

pokemongoaway 9y ago

In isolation? Where is any of this in isolation - is there an island with a politics laboratory somewhere? And yes, I've been to India and the truth is the same: the only way to stop being racist and sexist is to stop. Not to institute sexist and racist policies of "women aren't good enough so we must force more to be hired in professions they don't prefer" and "blacks aren't good enough so we need to let them in when their grades are lower than every one else's." Minorities need to be given a hand? You mean we need equal outcomes and minority opinions like Damore's are not welcome?