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That's because you're papering over the abuse that Amazon already inflicts on workers and rural communities and you need to make up for the the logical hole lef

That's because you're papering over the abuse that Amazon already inflicts on workers and rural communities and you need to make up for the the logical hole left by a bad-faith deregulation starting point of your argument.

sokoloff 9y ago
Has Amazon made it worse for those groups than if Amazon didn't exist? I think generally not. Don't like Amazon's working conditions? Pretend that Amazon didn't exist and stop going to work there.
- workblood 9y ago
  Amazon's warehouse employees can't pretend Amazon doesn't exist because their local and state governments have flattened local economies in exchange for a fulfillment center being built in the county. Do you have any other advice for them, or do you want to keep repeating these naive reactionary defenses of the status quo?
  - badpun 9y ago
    > local and state governments have flattened local economies What do you mean by this?
- waterhouse 9y ago
  I note that this is a fully general argument for the permissibility of sweatshops of all sorts (as long as the company hasn't done anything other than set up and run the sweatshop). I also agree with it.
  - workblood 9y ago
    I really wonder why the the exploitation of workers and the immiseration of people who have no hope for economic mobility is acceptable in any circumstance. "Simply" operating a sweatshop in capitalism is by definition an effort to expand it.
    - waterhouse 9y ago
      The idea is, miserable though the conditions in a sweatshop may be, they are better than the alternatives the workers face, or else they wouldn't choose to be in the sweatshop. If donating $0 to that country is permissible, then surely doing something that makes things slightly better is at least as permissible. Also, if the company that runs the sweatshop is in fact making huge profit margins from it (I assume that's one thing "exploitation" implies), and if the company isn't especially unusual, then that suggests there's a lot of room for some other company to set up another factory, offer a slightly higher wage or better conditions to attract workers away from the first one, and still make great profits. If there are no artificial barriers to this, then foreign companies competing for workers may end up really improving matters after a while. Contrariwise, if there are significant risks to setting up more sweatshops—e.g. suffering bad PR, running afoul of new or newly interpreted legislation—then the few sweatshops will tend to remain few and miserable, and be run by companies that are more immune to the above dangers (probably large, with good legal departments and/or political pull, and those that don't depend as much on a good reputation). This implies that people who manage to cause serious problems for companies by protesting their use of sweatshops are probably making things worse for the workers. It is interesting to reflect on.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

sokoloff 9y ago

Has Amazon made it worse for those groups than if Amazon didn't exist? I think generally not. Don't like Amazon's working conditions? Pretend that Amazon didn't exist and stop going to work there.

workblood 9y ago
Amazon's warehouse employees can't pretend Amazon doesn't exist because their local and state governments have flattened local economies in exchange for a fulfillment center being built in the county. Do you have any other advice for them, or do you want to keep repeating these naive reactionary defenses of the status quo?
- badpun 9y ago
  > local and state governments have flattened local economies What do you mean by this?
waterhouse 9y ago
I note that this is a fully general argument for the permissibility of sweatshops of all sorts (as long as the company hasn't done anything other than set up and run the sweatshop). I also agree with it.
- workblood 9y ago
  I really wonder why the the exploitation of workers and the immiseration of people who have no hope for economic mobility is acceptable in any circumstance. "Simply" operating a sweatshop in capitalism is by definition an effort to expand it.
  - waterhouse 9y ago
    The idea is, miserable though the conditions in a sweatshop may be, they are better than the alternatives the workers face, or else they wouldn't choose to be in the sweatshop. If donating $0 to that country is permissible, then surely doing something that makes things slightly better is at least as permissible. Also, if the company that runs the sweatshop is in fact making huge profit margins from it (I assume that's one thing "exploitation" implies), and if the company isn't especially unusual, then that suggests there's a lot of room for some other company to set up another factory, offer a slightly higher wage or better conditions to attract workers away from the first one, and still make great profits. If there are no artificial barriers to this, then foreign companies competing for workers may end up really improving matters after a while. Contrariwise, if there are significant risks to setting up more sweatshops—e.g. suffering bad PR, running afoul of new or newly interpreted legislation—then the few sweatshops will tend to remain few and miserable, and be run by companies that are more immune to the above dangers (probably large, with good legal departments and/or political pull, and those that don't depend as much on a good reputation). This implies that people who manage to cause serious problems for companies by protesting their use of sweatshops are probably making things worse for the workers. It is interesting to reflect on.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]