4 ms·

Why are we still testing on rats? Don’t we have a better method?

agumonkey 9y ago
go sign a study protocol and tell us
rincebrain 9y ago
Ketamine is legal for doctors to use on humans in most parts of the world, but most humans object to brain biopsies while alive, or injections directly into the brain while the instruments are monitoring what happens in the skull. That's one reason that the method of action for plenty of approved treatments for mental health can be "???" - human clinical trials mostly check that it's not going to {kill you, make it worse} and works better than placebo, not "what's going on inside this live human brain", until we get better live monitoring non-invasive tooling for this sort of thing in humans.
Parcissons 9y ago
If you are depressed- buy a horse. Isnt it wonderfull how we can fix depression now, but nobody has worked on a chemical fix against beeing overly conformist behaviour? No legal drug on the market that cures a lack of rebellion. Mysterious. As if what is declared disease and what is declared cure, is dependant upon how usefull it is to society- but wait, rebellion could be usefull for a scientific society too- so its dependant on how adaptable the "cure" makes you for a hierarchic society. All those pheromones the queen emits, they make the little bees work.
YCode 9y ago
IIRC their brain chemistry is more similar to ours than most other animals. They do simulations and petri dish testing as well, what would a better method look like?
- bufferoverflow 9y ago
  We know ketamine is relatively safe for humans from the recreational use.
  - shanecleveland 9y ago
    Ketamine was used to sedate my then two-year-old daughter in the ER when she needed stitches near her lip. The doc didn't want to foul up her face if she thrashed. It was definitely odd. She was awake, but no reaction AT ALL.
    - refurb 9y ago
      Ketamine gets more use in kids than adults because they tend to react better to the dissociative effects. Adults can become combative. To your point, when the first dissociative hit the market, phencyclidine (PCP), it was a bit of a miracle drug. No respiratory depression, actually makes the heart beat a little stronger. It wasn't until the dissociative effects became more known was it withdrawn from the market.
aaavl2821 9y ago
Unfortunately we don't. Definitely puts a damper on the conclusions. The optogenetic technique involves gene delivery to specific brain cells which is not yet something we're comfortable doing in humans for basic research, although there are a few drugs using this tech in clinical trials
stevew20 9y ago
Death row inmates may be good candidates for drug testing. They get to Trip Balls(tm), which is good for them, and science gets to progress, which is good for everyone else (including those that the inmate wronged, making it a form of penance). No point in wasting a human who's lost their right to life, when science needs to be done!

go sign a study protocol and tell us

Ketamine is legal for doctors to use on humans in most parts of the world, but most humans object to brain biopsies while alive, or injections directly into the brain while the instruments are monitoring what happens in the skull. That's one reason that the method of action for plenty of approved treatments for mental health can be "???" - human clinical trials mostly check that it's not going to {kill you, make it worse} and works better than placebo, not "what's going on inside this live human brain", until we get better live monitoring non-invasive tooling for this sort of thing in humans.

Parcissons 9y ago

If you are depressed- buy a horse. Isnt it wonderfull how we can fix depression now, but nobody has worked on a chemical fix against beeing overly conformist behaviour? No legal drug on the market that cures a lack of rebellion. Mysterious. As if what is declared disease and what is declared cure, is dependant upon how usefull it is to society- but wait, rebellion could be usefull for a scientific society too- so its dependant on how adaptable the "cure" makes you for a hierarchic society. All those pheromones the queen emits, they make the little bees work.

YCode 9y ago

IIRC their brain chemistry is more similar to ours than most other animals. They do simulations and petri dish testing as well, what would a better method look like?

bufferoverflow 9y ago
We know ketamine is relatively safe for humans from the recreational use.
- shanecleveland 9y ago
  Ketamine was used to sedate my then two-year-old daughter in the ER when she needed stitches near her lip. The doc didn't want to foul up her face if she thrashed. It was definitely odd. She was awake, but no reaction AT ALL.
  - refurb 9y ago
    Ketamine gets more use in kids than adults because they tend to react better to the dissociative effects. Adults can become combative. To your point, when the first dissociative hit the market, phencyclidine (PCP), it was a bit of a miracle drug. No respiratory depression, actually makes the heart beat a little stronger. It wasn't until the dissociative effects became more known was it withdrawn from the market.

aaavl2821 9y ago

Unfortunately we don't. Definitely puts a damper on the conclusions. The optogenetic technique involves gene delivery to specific brain cells which is not yet something we're comfortable doing in humans for basic research, although there are a few drugs using this tech in clinical trials

stevew20 9y ago

Death row inmates may be good candidates for drug testing. They get to Trip Balls(tm), which is good for them, and science gets to progress, which is good for everyone else (including those that the inmate wronged, making it a form of penance). No point in wasting a human who's lost their right to life, when science needs to be done!