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Most doctors are performing infusions with a loading procedure where the patient has six infusions in the span of two weeks. Then the patient is offered what th
by atomical 9y ago
Most doctors are performing infusions with a loading procedure where the patient has six infusions in the span of two weeks. Then the patient is offered what they refer to as maintenance. The space between maintenance doses is a decision made by the patient. Some doctors prescribe additional anti-depressants to help patients sustain the effect until their next infusion. One of the problems with this treatment is that there aren't any studies that show this is effective long term.
I have had ketamine treatments at two different clinics and the procedure and methods varied. There were differences in monitoring and safety protocols.
Initial doses could run anywhere from $2100-$6000. One maintenance dose could be $300-$1000. Hopefully Rapastinel will be approved by the FDA soon and wipes out small industry that is partial to unproven science. Don't be influenced by the hype. Please try everything else before you try Ketamine infusions.
Edit: I also want to mention that there isn't any proof that Ketamine is anything but short acting. See this review by Cochrane: http://www.cochrane.org/CD011611/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other-glutamate-receptor-modulators-bipolar-depression http://www.cochrane.org/CD011611/DEPRESSN_ketamine-and-other...
- Tharkun 9y agoThat's a ridiculous price to pay for ketamine. Though I'm hoping that cost includes a doctor's supervision and stuff? $6000 would buy me enough Special K for several life times ...
- atomical 9y ago> Though I'm hoping that cost includes a doctor's supervision and stuff? Supervision by a nurse. It's usually contracted out. > $6000 would buy me enough Special K for several life times ... If it's not the same procedure (IV) with a compound that is pure you might not be getting any of the benefits.
- jack_h 9y ago> If it's not the same procedure (IV) with a compound that is pure you might not be getting any of the benefits. At the same time since insurance doesn't cover this the only real option for people who don't have that kind of money (myself included) is black market self-administration or more traditional therapies which may not be as effective.
- atomical 9y ago> or more traditional therapies which may not be as effective. It's not proven. There are a few articles and a few success stories. It isn't a panacea. The cost is only an issue after someone has tried many traditional therapies.
- LaikaF 9y agoMed grade K pops up for about 140 USD a gram. It's not hard to get insulin needles. There are guides on how to IV on the internet. This would likely last much shorter then an infusion as there's a limited options for setting a running IV as opposed to just a single injection.
- Lambdanaut 9y agoThat's US street price. On the dark web you can get medical grade for $20 a gram.
- sh4z 9y agoAnd from a veterinarian in Central America for less than $5 a gram. Is there a difference between "medical grade" and what is used for animals?
- robocat 9y agoYour "medical grade" could be fake on the darkweb, who knows what you are getting? "In the village of Boshe, underground laboratories are producing ketamine cheaply in large amounts." from: http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-33472971/inside-a-chinese-ketamine-village http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-33472971/inside-... I also wouldn't be trusting the packaging wasn't fake (or refilled).
- sincerely 9y ago
- empath75 9y agoStreet ketamine is usually from vets..
- WalterSear 9y agoAccording to my psychiatrist, you are paying for the malpractice insurance of a doctor performing unestablished medical treatments.
- aaavl2821 9y agoThat might be misinformed, although $2-6k per infusion is very very high. That price is simply providing a high profit to the provider There is a group of doctors who provide ketamine therapy and they've created some resources for interested patients. They say cost should be $400-800 per infusion and outline the drivers: http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/cost/ http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/cost/
- WalterSear 9y agoFwiw, $800 is the price I was quoted.
- atomical 9y agoYou're paying for the risk that the doctor is taking. It's going directly into his pocket though. That's why regional prices are so far apart.
- phkahler 9y agoI've come to see depression partially as a semi-stable brain-state with reinforcing feedback. Some of that feedback may be chemical while some is psychological (thought or feeling). It may even persist once the major stimuli that got to that state have been removed. As such, any intervention that pops the patient out of that state could be permanent so long as the other things that led there don't happen again. Or if those things are still present, any intervention will be short lived.
- nurettin 9y agoHi, what is your profession?
- phkahler 9y agoEngineer/Programmer. I had a bout of depression some time ago and had an amazing time watching my own thought processes and reading about psychology. I hope to write about my experience some day.
- LaikaF 9y agoI can definitely see this being true. Likely why things like psychedelics can help but only for a few months. Also would explain why CBT works as well as it does. I actually wrote something on the looping nature of my own depression that was in the form of a loop.
- CodeWriter23 9y agoWhat about the “K-hole” effect? Have you ever delayed one of your maintenance treatments for significantly longer than what you would consider “normal” (for yourself of course)?
- LaikaF 9y agoI enjoy K-holes though it's been a while since I've gotten to one. One thing people don't realize is that ketamine tolerance is very long and hard to get rid of. It's easy to find reports from recreational users of it lasting years.
- atomical 9y agoK-hole effect happens to people who abuse ketamine. The treatment can still be very unpleasant though. I sweat profusely and puke. I haven't experienced any tolerance and the effect is not actually lasting a month as I had hoped.
- LaikaF 9y agoI've done this as an amateur. Medical grade ketamine isn't the hardest thing to find and I do not have the money to do it professionally. A few years ago I remember my first time taking ketamine at all I went from near suicidal to feeling completely fine pretty much over night. I think that the "side effects" as the article put it are actually pretty helpful. The dissociation gives you a sort of third person view of your problems and life that is very helpful in my opinion. I found that eventually it stops being as effective but I think there has been some permanent changes. My lows don't feel as low anymore. I still have down periods but they're no where as bad as they used to be. More recently I've just stuck to antidepressants (I take an NDRI) and vitamin D3. I've tried some analogs of ketamine (2fdck, dck) and hope they take a look at some of them to see if there can be similar effects.
- Judgmentality 9y ago> Medical grade ketamine isn't the hardest thing to find How do you know the quality?
- LaikaF 9y agoI wouldn't trust it for injection unless it came in medical vial. It's on the darknet, though more expensive than powdered Ketamine.
- rubicon33 9y agoHow do you trust anything you get on the darknet?
- bbrian 9y agoYou roll the dice, having learned the odds are in your favour. "The primary sources of street Ketamine in China include diversion or theft of legal pharmaceuticals from medical or veterinary licit trade with some supplies also manufactured in clandestine laboratories (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 2010). It is therefore believed that the purity and the quality of street ketamine is high (no research data available) contributing to its increasing popularity among drug users in China." (2014) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4004368/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4004368/
- aaavl2821 9y agoThere are providers who charge $2k+ per dose, but providers can charge much less and still make a profit. For a list of cheaper providers see here: http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/provider-directory/ http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/provider-directory/ Cost info here: http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/cost/ http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/cost/
- ineedasername 9y agoWow, rapastinel: I dont kniw how I haven't cone across that before but thank you for mentioning it. I'm astonished something so close to "done" is so atypically effective. I know too much about these things to throw around the term "miracle drug" but it looks very well inside the "game changer" territory.
- katooka 9y agoU got scammed for that price One infusion for me in a clinic in Florida was 500$ and a one month supply for maintenance was 30$
- atomical 9y agoSupply of what? Intranasal?
- rorykoehler 9y agoWhy is medical grade ketamine so expensive when the street stuff is dirt cheap? That sounds like an unbelievable ripoff.
- LaikaF 9y agoStreet stuff is cut, and you're not paying someone to inject it into you.