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I used a few in my past life as a bad sysadmin. Mostly Ubuntu Server's. Some Fedora's, some CentOS's, some Arch Linux. I never did try Gentoo in production serv

I used a few in my past life as a bad sysadmin. Mostly Ubuntu Server's. Some Fedora's, some CentOS's, some Arch Linux. I never did try Gentoo in production servers though. And through the years I learned to dislike their hive-mind approach to problems with half-baked crippled solutions that get approved and merged to production because some untouchable dev/guru/mastermind decided that he alone was a significant sample of all linux users: - Forget about extending and improving ifconfig. Lets change everything and create a new command, afterall ifconfig is not that important,. - Forget about your system dir layout. Lets change it and mix everything up into / - Oops that kernel update completly screwed iptables... - Oops that kernel update somehow introduced packet loops in the network - Today I learned that I/O DoS is. - wtf systemd ? Now i have to read up on this new sh*t that they are pushing down my throat. Oh wait there is no documentation. - Don't get me started on filesystems... Anyhow, I find Unix systems very hard to manage and maintain, i mean we do have all these devops tools to automatically manage configs and programatically setup machines in a coherent way. Linux just likes to show more than others that it exists, and does it in very inappropriate ways.

vetinari 9y ago
> Forget about your system dir layout. Lets change it and mix everything up into / Actually, everything is put into /usr, in / you have just symlinks. And there's a reason for that. > wtf systemd ? Now i have to read up on this new sh*t that they are pushing down my throat. Oh wait there is no documentation. One would say, that after 8 years you would be able to find the documentation. It has manpages too.
- Drdrdrq 9y ago
  Also, while I still oppose systemd (because it's a monolith, because it reinvents logging and because... it comes from the people behind DBus :) I must admit that lately I prefer writing systemd units to making nohup workarounds. I never did grok init.d scripts and from what I've seen neither did lots of other people. So that's a big plus in my book.
  - acdha 9y ago
    I’m not in love with everything about systemd but I’ve noticed that about 90% of the attacks sound to an experienced sysadmin more like the person making the claim has never encountered/ understood the need for that particular feature. Many people will talking lovingly about SysV init without any mention of the many things people did to hack around limitations or the downtime suffered because they didn’t. (Yeah, it’s not perfect but the rough parts can be improved and I’m looking forward to standardization meaning we never talk about daemonization, automatic restarts, or logging again)
    - JdeBP 9y ago
      You have constructed the classic fallacious dichotomy between van Smoorenburg init and systemd. * http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/

vetinari 9y ago

> Forget about your system dir layout. Lets change it and mix everything up into / Actually, everything is put into /usr, in / you have just symlinks. And there's a reason for that. > wtf systemd ? Now i have to read up on this new sh*t that they are pushing down my throat. Oh wait there is no documentation. One would say, that after 8 years you would be able to find the documentation. It has manpages too.

Drdrdrq 9y ago
Also, while I still oppose systemd (because it's a monolith, because it reinvents logging and because... it comes from the people behind DBus :) I must admit that lately I prefer writing systemd units to making nohup workarounds. I never did grok init.d scripts and from what I've seen neither did lots of other people. So that's a big plus in my book.
- acdha 9y ago
  I’m not in love with everything about systemd but I’ve noticed that about 90% of the attacks sound to an experienced sysadmin more like the person making the claim has never encountered/ understood the need for that particular feature. Many people will talking lovingly about SysV init without any mention of the many things people did to hack around limitations or the downtime suffered because they didn’t. (Yeah, it’s not perfect but the rough parts can be improved and I’m looking forward to standardization meaning we never talk about daemonization, automatic restarts, or logging again)
  - JdeBP 9y ago
    You have constructed the classic fallacious dichotomy between van Smoorenburg init and systemd. * http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/