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It doesn't even stop there. There are numerous reports of Orangutans being exploited as sex slaves in the midst of this palm plantation induced destruction of

It doesn't even stop there. There are numerous reports of Orangutans being exploited as sex slaves in the midst of this palm plantation induced destruction of their habitats. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=orangutan+prostitution https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=orangutan+prost... It's probably insignificant, but I am now very careful when purchasing any manufactured goods, stuff like peanut butter. If Palm oil is an ingredient, I'm not buying it, full stop. Not sure what else an individual can do to combat this disgusting situation.

diogenescynic 9y ago
The only solutions is to somehow find jobs or alternatives that pay more than these destructive actions. The problem is this is simply the best option they have. We can’t save the animals without helping the humans first. Jane Goodall basically says the same thing in her lectures now.
- ComputerGuru 9y ago
  I’m not sure it’s that simple, though. There’s an inelastic demand for some of these things. For example, no matter how many other opportunities you provide lion and elephant poachers in Kenya, for every poacher you take away that will drive up the cost of a pelt or tusk, making it more lucrative once more. It would certainly go a long way to help, though.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    It helps to think of poaching vs preservation not as actions of individuals, but of communities. In Africa, for example, tourism has become a major economic force in many rural areas, with rare animals being central to the attraction. Since those communities are as tight-knit as they are in small villages anywhere, they have both the incentives and the means to stop individuals from undermining the local economy.
- newnewpdro 9y ago
  I think it becomes a whole lot easier for the people doing this to rationalize it when surrounded by the destruction being meted out by these huge corporations buying the palm oil. Like a case of broken windows [1]. One could argue if such wanton destruction of the Orangutan habitats wasn't occurring in the first place, then there'd be significantly less incidence of Orangutan prostitution. The destruction is not only precipitating Orangutans destined for premature death available to the sex traffickers, it's also setting an example of total disregard for their lives on a massive scale. What harm is there in exploiting them briefly for profit before they die? (Not my position, but I can easily imagine that thought process being real for the traffickers.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
  - tinymollusk 9y ago
    Broken Windows Theory is at best, hotly contested. The wikipedia article linked above covers the debate (which has been around since the theory was published in 1982, without much resolution in whether the evidence supports the theory).
    - newnewpdro 9y ago
      There are obviously limits to the strategy for effectively preventing crime. But I feel it's also fairly obvious that there are positive effects to demonstrating care and good hygiene in general. It promotes the same from others. To do the contrary, demonstrating carelessness and neglect, has the opposite effect. <anecdata> This week I was hauling a trailer load of trash from a cabin I'm rehabbing out to the dump. One of my distant neighbors I hadn't met yet walked out to the street and flagged me down to introduce himself and have a chat. In the course of the conversation, he asked where I was taking my load of trash. I replied "to the dumpsters at the community center", an appropriate place for disposal. He indicated across the street to an abandoned, decrepit cabin, which is directly across the road from his property a sprawling ~20 acre complex. What he suggested surprised me considering the proximity to his own property. He said "You could just throw it in there, the owner doesn't care about the place." I bit my tongue and continued on to the dumpster, with thoughts of broken windows circulating my mind. </anecdata>
samstave 9y ago
>There are numerous reports of Orangutans being exploited as sex slaves WHAT THE FUCK? Seriously, this is crazy disgusting, how can this possibly be a thing?????? WTF???
- pishpash 9y ago
  Welcome to new kinds of HIV...
  - trhway 9y ago
    why new kind? My understanding from reading of the HIV history is that it is exactly where and how the HIV came from.
    - pishpash 9y ago
      HIV came from other primates, not orangutans.
      - trhway 9y ago
        you're right, it were from chimpanzees, not orangutans.
tren 9y ago
Several years ago I started making my own peanut butter, it's suprisingly easy. Put roasted peanuts in a food processor and churn for 10 minutes. You can always add a little bit of peanut oil if it's too dry out some honey if you want it sweeter. If you buy stuff with palm oil, make sure it's sustainable (usually on the label), otherwise send an email to the company asking where they source it. If there's enough consumer pressure applied to these companies, many will change to doing the right thing.
- undersuit 9y ago
  A store I used to go to had an area where you could get fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter straight from their grinder. Even had a bin of recycled glass containers to pour it into to.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
    This is one of my favorite solutions to the classic question of where food comes from and what's really in it. It came from the peanuts I just put in the grinder, and it consists of... the peanuts I just put in the grinder. Although there is some room on the end of that for salts and additives to be on the nuts.
    - kakarot 9y ago
      That only begs the question, "Where did the peanuts come from?"
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        You see, in order to create an apple pie from scratch, we must start by creating a universe.
jeromegv 9y ago
Agree! In Canada we have organic peanut butter, this is just pure peanuts, 100%, nothing else. Also tastes delicious.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

diogenescynic 9y ago

The only solutions is to somehow find jobs or alternatives that pay more than these destructive actions. The problem is this is simply the best option they have. We can’t save the animals without helping the humans first. Jane Goodall basically says the same thing in her lectures now.

ComputerGuru 9y ago
I’m not sure it’s that simple, though. There’s an inelastic demand for some of these things. For example, no matter how many other opportunities you provide lion and elephant poachers in Kenya, for every poacher you take away that will drive up the cost of a pelt or tusk, making it more lucrative once more. It would certainly go a long way to help, though.
- matt4077 9y ago
  It helps to think of poaching vs preservation not as actions of individuals, but of communities. In Africa, for example, tourism has become a major economic force in many rural areas, with rare animals being central to the attraction. Since those communities are as tight-knit as they are in small villages anywhere, they have both the incentives and the means to stop individuals from undermining the local economy.
newnewpdro 9y ago
I think it becomes a whole lot easier for the people doing this to rationalize it when surrounded by the destruction being meted out by these huge corporations buying the palm oil. Like a case of broken windows [1]. One could argue if such wanton destruction of the Orangutan habitats wasn't occurring in the first place, then there'd be significantly less incidence of Orangutan prostitution. The destruction is not only precipitating Orangutans destined for premature death available to the sex traffickers, it's also setting an example of total disregard for their lives on a massive scale. What harm is there in exploiting them briefly for profit before they die? (Not my position, but I can easily imagine that thought process being real for the traffickers.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
- tinymollusk 9y ago
  Broken Windows Theory is at best, hotly contested. The wikipedia article linked above covers the debate (which has been around since the theory was published in 1982, without much resolution in whether the evidence supports the theory).
  - newnewpdro 9y ago
    There are obviously limits to the strategy for effectively preventing crime. But I feel it's also fairly obvious that there are positive effects to demonstrating care and good hygiene in general. It promotes the same from others. To do the contrary, demonstrating carelessness and neglect, has the opposite effect. <anecdata> This week I was hauling a trailer load of trash from a cabin I'm rehabbing out to the dump. One of my distant neighbors I hadn't met yet walked out to the street and flagged me down to introduce himself and have a chat. In the course of the conversation, he asked where I was taking my load of trash. I replied "to the dumpsters at the community center", an appropriate place for disposal. He indicated across the street to an abandoned, decrepit cabin, which is directly across the road from his property a sprawling ~20 acre complex. What he suggested surprised me considering the proximity to his own property. He said "You could just throw it in there, the owner doesn't care about the place." I bit my tongue and continued on to the dumpster, with thoughts of broken windows circulating my mind. </anecdata>

samstave 9y ago

>There are numerous reports of Orangutans being exploited as sex slaves WHAT THE FUCK? Seriously, this is crazy disgusting, how can this possibly be a thing?????? WTF???

pishpash 9y ago
Welcome to new kinds of HIV...
- trhway 9y ago
  why new kind? My understanding from reading of the HIV history is that it is exactly where and how the HIV came from.
  - pishpash 9y ago
    HIV came from other primates, not orangutans.
    - trhway 9y ago
      you're right, it were from chimpanzees, not orangutans.

tren 9y ago

Several years ago I started making my own peanut butter, it's suprisingly easy. Put roasted peanuts in a food processor and churn for 10 minutes. You can always add a little bit of peanut oil if it's too dry out some honey if you want it sweeter. If you buy stuff with palm oil, make sure it's sustainable (usually on the label), otherwise send an email to the company asking where they source it. If there's enough consumer pressure applied to these companies, many will change to doing the right thing.

undersuit 9y ago
A store I used to go to had an area where you could get fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter straight from their grinder. Even had a bin of recycled glass containers to pour it into to.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
  This is one of my favorite solutions to the classic question of where food comes from and what's really in it. It came from the peanuts I just put in the grinder, and it consists of... the peanuts I just put in the grinder. Although there is some room on the end of that for salts and additives to be on the nuts.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    That only begs the question, "Where did the peanuts come from?"
    - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
      You see, in order to create an apple pie from scratch, we must start by creating a universe.

jeromegv 9y ago

Agree! In Canada we have organic peanut butter, this is just pure peanuts, 100%, nothing else. Also tastes delicious.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]