3 ms·

>We have Python, Ruby, Javascript... We have the Web as a platform Can you explain how any of those things makes learning programming easier?

mappu 9y ago
A generation ago, many (most?) apps were C++ for Win32. That means wndprocs, LPARAM, pointer casts everywhere. No STL, buggy templates. Dialog resources, manual layout of controls. Build the app for both * A and * W, ship unicows for win95 support. Crashes on machines without IE4. A lot of that was just incidental complexity and is covered up now.
- ghayes 9y ago
  Plus, it's really nice having a REPL.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  A generation ago, many (most?) apps were C++ for Win32. I think there was far more VB being written than C++, at least at the sites I visited.
root_axis 9y ago
They are easier to get started with for several reasons. 1. Automatic GC means new programmers don't have to understand memory management or concepts like pointers up front. 2. Dynamic typing does not demand type declarations or throw type errors so it lets new programmers get up and moving quickly without having to appreciate the purpose and benefits of a type system. 3. No compiling means faster builds so newbies become less frustrated with errors and debugging. Users will also avoid dealing with cryptic compiler errors. 4. The dependency management and module systems for these languages are easy to use and don't require an understanding of header files or object linking in order to get your program to build or run in other environments 5. Package managers with tons of free open source code that are easy to discover, install and use immediately.
- kbwt 9y ago
  But then we're not comparing the same thing. If you were trying to learn manual memory management, type declarations, linkers, cross-compilation and packaging in 2018, would that really be any easier than in 1998?
  - root_axis 9y ago
    I don't disagree, but these languages can still be used to create useful programs for hobbyists and industry without having to learn those concepts, so I'd say it certainly counts as "easier to learn", the utility of those other skills notwithstanding.
rpedela 9y ago
Memory management. I started on C which made me a better programmer in the end, but extremely frustrating to learn.
dentemple 9y ago
To get started with Javascript, the only compiler you need to download is a web browser.

mappu 9y ago

A generation ago, many (most?) apps were C++ for Win32. That means wndprocs, LPARAM, pointer casts everywhere. No STL, buggy templates. Dialog resources, manual layout of controls. Build the app for both * A and * W, ship unicows for win95 support. Crashes on machines without IE4. A lot of that was just incidental complexity and is covered up now.

ghayes 9y ago
Plus, it's really nice having a REPL.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
A generation ago, many (most?) apps were C++ for Win32. I think there was far more VB being written than C++, at least at the sites I visited.

root_axis 9y ago

They are easier to get started with for several reasons. 1. Automatic GC means new programmers don't have to understand memory management or concepts like pointers up front. 2. Dynamic typing does not demand type declarations or throw type errors so it lets new programmers get up and moving quickly without having to appreciate the purpose and benefits of a type system. 3. No compiling means faster builds so newbies become less frustrated with errors and debugging. Users will also avoid dealing with cryptic compiler errors. 4. The dependency management and module systems for these languages are easy to use and don't require an understanding of header files or object linking in order to get your program to build or run in other environments 5. Package managers with tons of free open source code that are easy to discover, install and use immediately.

kbwt 9y ago
But then we're not comparing the same thing. If you were trying to learn manual memory management, type declarations, linkers, cross-compilation and packaging in 2018, would that really be any easier than in 1998?
- root_axis 9y ago
  I don't disagree, but these languages can still be used to create useful programs for hobbyists and industry without having to learn those concepts, so I'd say it certainly counts as "easier to learn", the utility of those other skills notwithstanding.

rpedela 9y ago

Memory management. I started on C which made me a better programmer in the end, but extremely frustrating to learn.

dentemple 9y ago

To get started with Javascript, the only compiler you need to download is a web browser.