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It's definitely working - US political system is whipping itself into frenzy over "collusion" conspiracy theories while Putin comfortably arranges yet another r

by smsm42 9y ago

It's definitely working - US political system is whipping itself into frenzy over "collusion" conspiracy theories while Putin comfortably arranges yet another rigged "election" for himself with no real opposition, suppresses dissent and imprisons anybody who dares to challenge him - and US can not even squeak a word about it since we're in the midst of declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime! If Putin indeed have foreseen it, and executed on this plan from a start, he's kinda genius. Or he's just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him.

outsidetheparty 9y ago
Oh dear; now you've made me regret calling you "thoughtful" earlier. In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion; you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" for no apparent reason; somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy; and I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to, if anything at all. Impressive! But I'll give you this one: > [Putin]'s just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him. That's right on the nose.
- smsm42 9y ago
  > In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion I am glad you are able to see it as two issues. 99% of the press isn't. > you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" Which it most definitely is, by definition - it's a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) and it's about a conspiracy. What is it if not conspiracy theory? > somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy I decided nothing of the sort. Of course US craziness is not to blame for Russian fake elections. But US craziness makes it harder for US to point to Russians that they just had fake elections, because Russians would say "didn't you just said telling other people about their elections is criminal? So please do shut up". US just shot itself in the foot on this one, and for no good reason whatsoever. > I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to Oh, you do have an idea, drop the pretense. You are perfectly aware what I am referring to, you just like to pretend it's not what it is saying. But, unfortunately, it is.
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    > it’s a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) Oh horsepucky. There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets and etc but I’m sure you’re quite as well familiar with it as I am. > You are perfectly aware what I am referring to I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is. Feel free to explain it, if you like.
    - smsm42 9y ago
      > There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” Yes there is. But given the way it has been conducted so far - where any information against Trump has been leaked very promptly - and yet in the whole time absolutely nothing confirming the "collusion" theory has been found, and everything that came out - e.g. Flynn, Manafort, Papadopulos & now Russian trolls' indictments - show nothing of the sort, it's pretty safe to conclude it won't be ever found, because there's nothing to find. Of course, one is free to believe otherwise, as one is free to believe we are yet to discover the lost city of Atlantis, the Yeti and the UFOs hidden in Area 51, we just didn't look well enough. Hope dies last. > There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; Yep, there is. If fact, there's none. > I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets Yes, there were meetings and emails and tweets, none of them has any evidence of Trump colluding with anybody to do anything, let alone anything criminal or even out of the course of routine politics. They may be evidence of thousands of things, but not that particular one. > I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is > you’ve chosen to fall back to playground-level argumentation. It is a fascinating level of lack of self-awareness - telling me I'm on "playground-level" in the same sentence as as subjecting me to a playground-level insults! OK, I will indulge your pretense. I was referring to the prosecution of Russian individuals under the theory that participating in US politics, by publicly expressing your opinion on social media, or other venues, while not being US citizen, can be criminal. Of course, there are also some instances of actual fraud in the indictment, like identity theft, which are different matter, but conduct like "tweeting about US politics", or even "tweeting about US politics while having a profile on Twitter falsely claiming you are an American" should not be part of any criminal prosecution or criminal indictment.

by smsm42 9y ago

outsidetheparty 9y ago

Oh dear; now you've made me regret calling you "thoughtful" earlier. In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion; you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" for no apparent reason; somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy; and I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to, if anything at all. Impressive! But I'll give you this one: > [Putin]'s just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him. That's right on the nose.

smsm42 9y ago
> In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion I am glad you are able to see it as two issues. 99% of the press isn't. > you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" Which it most definitely is, by definition - it's a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) and it's about a conspiracy. What is it if not conspiracy theory? > somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy I decided nothing of the sort. Of course US craziness is not to blame for Russian fake elections. But US craziness makes it harder for US to point to Russians that they just had fake elections, because Russians would say "didn't you just said telling other people about their elections is criminal? So please do shut up". US just shot itself in the foot on this one, and for no good reason whatsoever. > I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to Oh, you do have an idea, drop the pretense. You are perfectly aware what I am referring to, you just like to pretend it's not what it is saying. But, unfortunately, it is.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  > it’s a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) Oh horsepucky. There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets and etc but I’m sure you’re quite as well familiar with it as I am. > You are perfectly aware what I am referring to I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is. Feel free to explain it, if you like.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    > There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” Yes there is. But given the way it has been conducted so far - where any information against Trump has been leaked very promptly - and yet in the whole time absolutely nothing confirming the "collusion" theory has been found, and everything that came out - e.g. Flynn, Manafort, Papadopulos & now Russian trolls' indictments - show nothing of the sort, it's pretty safe to conclude it won't be ever found, because there's nothing to find. Of course, one is free to believe otherwise, as one is free to believe we are yet to discover the lost city of Atlantis, the Yeti and the UFOs hidden in Area 51, we just didn't look well enough. Hope dies last. > There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; Yep, there is. If fact, there's none. > I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets Yes, there were meetings and emails and tweets, none of them has any evidence of Trump colluding with anybody to do anything, let alone anything criminal or even out of the course of routine politics. They may be evidence of thousands of things, but not that particular one. > I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is > you’ve chosen to fall back to playground-level argumentation. It is a fascinating level of lack of self-awareness - telling me I'm on "playground-level" in the same sentence as as subjecting me to a playground-level insults! OK, I will indulge your pretense. I was referring to the prosecution of Russian individuals under the theory that participating in US politics, by publicly expressing your opinion on social media, or other venues, while not being US citizen, can be criminal. Of course, there are also some instances of actual fraud in the indictment, like identity theft, which are different matter, but conduct like "tweeting about US politics", or even "tweeting about US politics while having a profile on Twitter falsely claiming you are an American" should not be part of any criminal prosecution or criminal indictment.