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What percentage of public schools allow teachers to carry firearms? I know a couple schools in Texas went forward with proper training for a few teachers who w

What percentage of public schools allow teachers to carry firearms? I know a couple schools in Texas went forward with proper training for a few teachers who wanted to carry in school. Frangible ammo, clearing tactics, proper concealment. I'm sure if there were any incidents at those schools, it would be all over the national news, but I haven't heard anything yet. It seems like teachers with guns would be a better option than teachers as [temporary] shields for students. Also seems better than "turn the lights off and hide." I've heard all the arguments about students getting ahold of a teacher's gun, accidental discharge, etc. If you're making those sorts of arguments, do you also carry a gun? As others have mentioned, the gun culture in America is not going to change any time soon, so the politicians are not going to "take away the guns." We're also continuing to pump psychotropic drugs into our children by the millions. Add to that the environment of public school: raging hormones, toxic bullying, dehumanizing suppression of individuality. Not exactly a recipe for peace. Perhaps it's time to try something different?

FireBeyond 9y ago
> We're also continuing to pump psychotropic drugs into our children by the millions. Add to that the environment of public school: raging hormones, toxic bullying, dehumanizing suppression of individuality. Whilst simultaneously both decreasing mental health funding, AND increasing availability of weapons to people with mental health issues. It's not just that we're "not doing something good" for the problem... We're _actively_ making the problem worse, in some of the most obvious / blatant ways.
idoh 9y ago
As a purely practical matter, does it really make sense to prioritize the arming of millions of teachers to handle this? I know a lot of teachers and they are really busy with all the other stuff that they have to do, what would you trade off in favor of training? Without getting into the politics of this, the fact of the matter is that these types of shootings are really rare, and if I had to draft up a list of problems that schools face then mass shootings would certainly not crack the top 10, or even top 100 problems / priorities to focus on.
- clarkmoody 9y ago
  The solution to arming the teachers would be purely opt-in, as in, remove legal barriers to teachers defending themselves and their students. I'm not suggesting any sort of new program.
  - idoh 9y ago
    There is no way to not make it a program though. Some issues I see here: - if teachers are allowed to be armed, then as a parent I believe that I have a right to know which of the teachers at my school carry firearms, and I want to be able to verify that they have the proper training and safety precautions in place - the standard procedure for this type of situation is for the teachers to stay with their students and to lock the doors. If some of the teachers have weapons, then what is the plan for them? Are they meant to leave their students alone and unsupervised in the classroom as they confront and attempt to gun down the assailant? The school would have to figure out and plan for this too. - Insurance companies would have something to say about this as well, where would the budget come from to pay for increased premiums? It is not as simple as just removing legal barriers, there are tradeoffs involved.
qxamak 9y ago
I've always found this debate interesting. I own a few guns and don't want to see my rights restricted. But I also don't feel comfortable with the thought of my kid's teacher carrying a gun. And while I don't dismiss the possibility of armed teachers being a deterrent for school shootings, I do question the fact that so many other countries that have more restrictive gun control laws also have far fewer homicide rates (especially in mass shooting situations). As a scientist, it feels like I'm looking at a dataset of the rest of the world that shows a strong correlation between strict gun control and lower homicide rates. But then I say to myself, "maybe we (America) can have less gun control, which will cause us to exhibit even lower homicide rates". But I know that thought doesn't really make sense.
- jotm 9y ago
  ... my response can be summed up with "wat" Edit: fine, alright. He's questioning the fact so many other countries with strict gun controls have fewer homicide rates. No shit they do. Acknowledging the correlation between gun control and lower homicide rates, this "scientist" then says to himself "maybe we can have less gun control, which will cause us to exhibit lower homicide rates". And then he edits it with "But I know that thought doesn't really make sense". Fucking social media, I swear. I want to quit it like I want to quit nicotine and alcohol.
  - qxamak 9y ago
    I was trying to point to the absurdity of the debate, even as someone who (moderately) opposes gun control laws. And I think we actually agree with each other on the "scientific" basis of my comments. I view the logic behind the debate in a similar way that a drunk driver might say, "well, if I was even more intoxicated, then I wouldn't have caused that accident". It doesn't really make sense to think that way. But the narrative of putting more guns into schools as a benefit has been pushed so hard that it actually makes me question the potential positive outcome (as opposed to outright rejecting it based on the preponderance of evidence to the contrary).
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Actually, "I want them to get rid of other people's guns but not mine" is probably a widely held opinion on the gun debate in the US. I admittedly share this point of view. "I like this law as long as they don't apply it to me" is how this country works!
acdha 9y ago
> I've heard all the arguments about students getting ahold of a teacher's gun, accidental discharge, etc. If you're making those sorts of arguments, do you also carry a gun? The teachers I know dislike this idea for those reasons: it makes them targets and in a non-prison environment the gun would either be easy for a student to get or too secure for them to get in an emergency situation, especially when they’re supposed to be managing panicked students. Looking at the number of police officers who accidentally injure people despite far more training and an easier environment, it’s really hard to imagine this ending well – we have trouble keeping pens and paper in classrooms, are we really going to consistently find the money and time for regular training?
- eftychis 9y ago
  >> I've heard all the arguments about students getting ahold of a teacher's gun, accidental discharge, etc. If you're making those sorts of arguments, do you also carry a gun? >The teachers I know dislike this idea for those reasons: it makes them targets and in a non-prison environment the gun would either be easy for a student to get or too secure for them to get in an emergency situation, especially when they’re supposed to be managing panicked students. Count in there following accidents: teacher shooting teacher, teacher shooting kid, teacher overreacting (false alarm), teacher misplacing gun, kid getting access to a gun locker, police shooting teacher or kid (kids will decide at that point to play superheroes and go for a gun). People complain in this country about police officers shooting kids. People that are trained for years and are reviewed (supposedly regularly) for their ability to carry a firearm and play judge, jury, executioner in a stressful situation as a team. People just don't get how impractical and unrealistic this idea is. You want an average Jane/Joe to coordinate with their peers and dependents (kids) to incapacitate a person armed with an assault rifle (does not matter if it is semi-automatic if you are trained really) armed with a handgun. You ask superhuman feats from the teachers: i) to be paradigms and caretakers and nurturers for our kids ii) to be trained, tactical and cold blooded killers. I don't want any kid of mine near a teacher trained to respond to these situations (I accept there are people that are able to cut themselves emotionally and react with cold blooded clarity and precision, while not being on their guard and paranoid: call them naturals and good luck...).

FireBeyond 9y ago

> We're also continuing to pump psychotropic drugs into our children by the millions. Add to that the environment of public school: raging hormones, toxic bullying, dehumanizing suppression of individuality. Whilst simultaneously both decreasing mental health funding, AND increasing availability of weapons to people with mental health issues. It's not just that we're "not doing something good" for the problem... We're _actively_ making the problem worse, in some of the most obvious / blatant ways.

idoh 9y ago

As a purely practical matter, does it really make sense to prioritize the arming of millions of teachers to handle this? I know a lot of teachers and they are really busy with all the other stuff that they have to do, what would you trade off in favor of training? Without getting into the politics of this, the fact of the matter is that these types of shootings are really rare, and if I had to draft up a list of problems that schools face then mass shootings would certainly not crack the top 10, or even top 100 problems / priorities to focus on.

clarkmoody 9y ago
The solution to arming the teachers would be purely opt-in, as in, remove legal barriers to teachers defending themselves and their students. I'm not suggesting any sort of new program.
- idoh 9y ago
  There is no way to not make it a program though. Some issues I see here: - if teachers are allowed to be armed, then as a parent I believe that I have a right to know which of the teachers at my school carry firearms, and I want to be able to verify that they have the proper training and safety precautions in place - the standard procedure for this type of situation is for the teachers to stay with their students and to lock the doors. If some of the teachers have weapons, then what is the plan for them? Are they meant to leave their students alone and unsupervised in the classroom as they confront and attempt to gun down the assailant? The school would have to figure out and plan for this too. - Insurance companies would have something to say about this as well, where would the budget come from to pay for increased premiums? It is not as simple as just removing legal barriers, there are tradeoffs involved.

qxamak 9y ago

I've always found this debate interesting. I own a few guns and don't want to see my rights restricted. But I also don't feel comfortable with the thought of my kid's teacher carrying a gun. And while I don't dismiss the possibility of armed teachers being a deterrent for school shootings, I do question the fact that so many other countries that have more restrictive gun control laws also have far fewer homicide rates (especially in mass shooting situations). As a scientist, it feels like I'm looking at a dataset of the rest of the world that shows a strong correlation between strict gun control and lower homicide rates. But then I say to myself, "maybe we (America) can have less gun control, which will cause us to exhibit even lower homicide rates". But I know that thought doesn't really make sense.

jotm 9y ago
... my response can be summed up with "wat" Edit: fine, alright. He's questioning the fact so many other countries with strict gun controls have fewer homicide rates. No shit they do. Acknowledging the correlation between gun control and lower homicide rates, this "scientist" then says to himself "maybe we can have less gun control, which will cause us to exhibit lower homicide rates". And then he edits it with "But I know that thought doesn't really make sense". Fucking social media, I swear. I want to quit it like I want to quit nicotine and alcohol.
- qxamak 9y ago
  I was trying to point to the absurdity of the debate, even as someone who (moderately) opposes gun control laws. And I think we actually agree with each other on the "scientific" basis of my comments. I view the logic behind the debate in a similar way that a drunk driver might say, "well, if I was even more intoxicated, then I wouldn't have caused that accident". It doesn't really make sense to think that way. But the narrative of putting more guns into schools as a benefit has been pushed so hard that it actually makes me question the potential positive outcome (as opposed to outright rejecting it based on the preponderance of evidence to the contrary).
ryandrake 9y ago
Actually, "I want them to get rid of other people's guns but not mine" is probably a widely held opinion on the gun debate in the US. I admittedly share this point of view. "I like this law as long as they don't apply it to me" is how this country works!

acdha 9y ago

> I've heard all the arguments about students getting ahold of a teacher's gun, accidental discharge, etc. If you're making those sorts of arguments, do you also carry a gun? The teachers I know dislike this idea for those reasons: it makes them targets and in a non-prison environment the gun would either be easy for a student to get or too secure for them to get in an emergency situation, especially when they’re supposed to be managing panicked students. Looking at the number of police officers who accidentally injure people despite far more training and an easier environment, it’s really hard to imagine this ending well – we have trouble keeping pens and paper in classrooms, are we really going to consistently find the money and time for regular training?

eftychis 9y ago
>> I've heard all the arguments about students getting ahold of a teacher's gun, accidental discharge, etc. If you're making those sorts of arguments, do you also carry a gun? >The teachers I know dislike this idea for those reasons: it makes them targets and in a non-prison environment the gun would either be easy for a student to get or too secure for them to get in an emergency situation, especially when they’re supposed to be managing panicked students. Count in there following accidents: teacher shooting teacher, teacher shooting kid, teacher overreacting (false alarm), teacher misplacing gun, kid getting access to a gun locker, police shooting teacher or kid (kids will decide at that point to play superheroes and go for a gun). People complain in this country about police officers shooting kids. People that are trained for years and are reviewed (supposedly regularly) for their ability to carry a firearm and play judge, jury, executioner in a stressful situation as a team. People just don't get how impractical and unrealistic this idea is. You want an average Jane/Joe to coordinate with their peers and dependents (kids) to incapacitate a person armed with an assault rifle (does not matter if it is semi-automatic if you are trained really) armed with a handgun. You ask superhuman feats from the teachers: i) to be paradigms and caretakers and nurturers for our kids ii) to be trained, tactical and cold blooded killers. I don't want any kid of mine near a teacher trained to respond to these situations (I accept there are people that are able to cut themselves emotionally and react with cold blooded clarity and precision, while not being on their guard and paranoid: call them naturals and good luck...).