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We have such a strange culture of guns in this country. This point became poignantly clear to me once when I was a potential juror on a gun-murder case. I rem

We have such a strange culture of guns in this country. This point became poignantly clear to me once when I was a potential juror on a gun-murder case. I remember they were screening the potential jurors for biases and they asked the large group of us: "How many of you personally own a gun" I looked around the room and and figured out of the 30 or so people maybe 5 would raise their hand. It was more like 25. It was on that day that America's gun obsession became real, quantifiable for me. Here was a cross section of my community, and I was a significant minority when it came to firepower. Almost everyone in that group, young and old, black and white, you name it, had a gun. People I was sure wouldn't raise their hand, raised their hands.

patorjk 9y ago
Based on research, it looks like around 30% of Americans own a gun [1]. So you may just live in an area with a lot of gun owners. Also, not everyone owns a gun for the same reason. Some for protection, some for hunting, some for antiques, etc etc. I've owned my house for a few years and last year I found a couple of shotguns tucked away next to a bookcase in a closet. I eventually got rid of them, but for a few months I would have technically had to raise my hand for that question. [1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-o...
- MollyR 9y ago
  I'm doubtful of that statistic. Many americans hate the government knowing what guns they have. Ghost guns are hugely popular for this reason, and only increasing in popularity https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enforcement-struggling-to-combat-unregulated-diy-ghost-guns/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enforcement-struggling-to-c...
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    This is a poll done by Pew Research Center, not a registry of guns that the government knows about. Obviously there is still a possibility that people are lying to pollsters, but there are extremely frequent speculations about things like that (e.g. the "Shy Tory Effect") that almost never end up skewing things by more than a few percent.
    - MollyR 9y ago
      I think President Trump proved people are lying to pollsters more than ever. Also Americans lie about guns quite a bit. I've even meet some who don't consider handguns as real guns or call them baby guns.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > I've owned my house for a few years and last year I found a couple of shotguns tucked away next to a bookcase in a closet. I mean, this just supports OP's comment that the US has a weird gun culture. That you can have more than gun and then just find them is weird.
eftychis 9y ago
I am curious of the distance of the sample distribution and society's was when that question was asked. To clarify, assuming jurors were picked randomly and people did not try to actively defer (or maybe use a different trick) to land on that case, how many of them strived really hard to stay as jurors that were gun owners etc. P.S. The gun culture surprises a part of me every day recently. Another part of me responds as "yeah, I kinda saw that coming a mile away. Want some refreshing tea?" P.S.2 25/30 might be a lot or acceptable depending on the country or region. The reasoning for gun ownership and lack of training and common misconceptions about weapon usage in general are things that terrify me. (E.g. Canadians and Swiss have a higher gun ownership probability, yet...) The notion that arming schools is even suggested by some people, even if they are emotionally affected (victims), shows extreme and dangerous ignorance about gun usage and handling. Really U.S. should be the last country to even joke about that (e.g. kid went to school with a clock and got arrested due to fear it might have been a bomb, guy shoots pedestrian, swat team responds to a fake call during the night and kills the occupant) P.S.3 Prediction: If we continue like this, the public shootings will increase to the point of becoming a normal news report on a Tuesday night.
brightball 9y ago
I never owned one until I was about 31 and my daughter was born. I live in a rural area and there was a break in less than a mile from my house, in the middle of the day, while the mom was inside. Some guy strung out on something decided to break in and attacked her. Somehow she managed to hit him hard enough that she got away, locked herself in a room and called the police while the guy ran away. Police arrived about 10 minutes later and luckily she wasn't permanently harmed. When something like that happens and you start running through scenarios in your head of what you would do if somebody had broken into your house while your family was inside? The amount of time it would take to get the kids safely into a room so that we could call the police and wait things out, especially once somebody is potentially already in your house...is very high. At the same time, as soon as somebody realizes you can shoot back...they run away. That's one of the reasons why 12 gauge shotguns that make the extremely loud cocking sound are so popular for home defense. People take for granted the value of an unfired gun because the threat is generally enough of a deterrent. I have never considered myself to be a "gun nut" or "gun obsessed" in any way shape or form. I've spent some time at ranges to make sure I was accurate and I've taken classes in responsible handling because I wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. At the same time, because I 100% view it as a home defense mechanism, the idea of not having it makes me very uncomfortable. Knowing that it is there and it will work in the unlikely event that I need it to work...that I won't have to wonder if batteries have run out or a pepper spray has expired...that is reassuring. Schools are a unique situation in the firearm world because in most locations where firearms are not allowed, government buildings, etc there is some type of security in place. Usually at the doors with armed guards and metal detectors. Schools are the place where that isn't the case, which makes them a prime target for things like this. The part where it's frustrating to have this conversation is that I fully understand the concerns of both teachers and parents about the idea of having armed guards, etc in a school. The problem is that the amount of people who die is directly related to the response time of somebody stopping the shooter. Lock-down procedures that have been implemented are a great step in that direction to buy time for police to arrive. Maybe the solution is metal doors with bullet proof glass to allow classrooms to be secure in the event of an emergency? Beyond that, I can't think of many other ways to cut down response time other than having somebody on site, who is trained by police, authorized to do so. The problem solver in me wants to solve the problem, but there's not an easy answer unfortunately. What I do know is that when police are called, they are arriving at the school to stop the shooter with guns. In my mind it's increasingly difficult in the face of tragedies like this to ignore that fact and insist that the only people able to respond must be people who have to drive to the location to do so. But it's more difficult when the conversation centers on two groups of people who feel threatened. One group is threatened by people who have guns. The other is threatened by not having guns themselves.
jotm 9y ago
I mean, I'd own a gun or two if it wasn't such a hassle to get them. Just for fun. But as it is, I can just go to the local shooting range on the weekend and be done with it.

patorjk 9y ago

Based on research, it looks like around 30% of Americans own a gun [1]. So you may just live in an area with a lot of gun owners. Also, not everyone owns a gun for the same reason. Some for protection, some for hunting, some for antiques, etc etc. I've owned my house for a few years and last year I found a couple of shotguns tucked away next to a bookcase in a closet. I eventually got rid of them, but for a few months I would have technically had to raise my hand for that question. [1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-o...

MollyR 9y ago
I'm doubtful of that statistic. Many americans hate the government knowing what guns they have. Ghost guns are hugely popular for this reason, and only increasing in popularity https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enforcement-struggling-to-combat-unregulated-diy-ghost-guns/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enforcement-struggling-to-c...
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  This is a poll done by Pew Research Center, not a registry of guns that the government knows about. Obviously there is still a possibility that people are lying to pollsters, but there are extremely frequent speculations about things like that (e.g. the "Shy Tory Effect") that almost never end up skewing things by more than a few percent.
  - MollyR 9y ago
    I think President Trump proved people are lying to pollsters more than ever. Also Americans lie about guns quite a bit. I've even meet some who don't consider handguns as real guns or call them baby guns.
DanBC 9y ago
> I've owned my house for a few years and last year I found a couple of shotguns tucked away next to a bookcase in a closet. I mean, this just supports OP's comment that the US has a weird gun culture. That you can have more than gun and then just find them is weird.

eftychis 9y ago

I am curious of the distance of the sample distribution and society's was when that question was asked. To clarify, assuming jurors were picked randomly and people did not try to actively defer (or maybe use a different trick) to land on that case, how many of them strived really hard to stay as jurors that were gun owners etc. P.S. The gun culture surprises a part of me every day recently. Another part of me responds as "yeah, I kinda saw that coming a mile away. Want some refreshing tea?" P.S.2 25/30 might be a lot or acceptable depending on the country or region. The reasoning for gun ownership and lack of training and common misconceptions about weapon usage in general are things that terrify me. (E.g. Canadians and Swiss have a higher gun ownership probability, yet...) The notion that arming schools is even suggested by some people, even if they are emotionally affected (victims), shows extreme and dangerous ignorance about gun usage and handling. Really U.S. should be the last country to even joke about that (e.g. kid went to school with a clock and got arrested due to fear it might have been a bomb, guy shoots pedestrian, swat team responds to a fake call during the night and kills the occupant) P.S.3 Prediction: If we continue like this, the public shootings will increase to the point of becoming a normal news report on a Tuesday night.

brightball 9y ago

I never owned one until I was about 31 and my daughter was born. I live in a rural area and there was a break in less than a mile from my house, in the middle of the day, while the mom was inside. Some guy strung out on something decided to break in and attacked her. Somehow she managed to hit him hard enough that she got away, locked herself in a room and called the police while the guy ran away. Police arrived about 10 minutes later and luckily she wasn't permanently harmed. When something like that happens and you start running through scenarios in your head of what you would do if somebody had broken into your house while your family was inside? The amount of time it would take to get the kids safely into a room so that we could call the police and wait things out, especially once somebody is potentially already in your house...is very high. At the same time, as soon as somebody realizes you can shoot back...they run away. That's one of the reasons why 12 gauge shotguns that make the extremely loud cocking sound are so popular for home defense. People take for granted the value of an unfired gun because the threat is generally enough of a deterrent. I have never considered myself to be a "gun nut" or "gun obsessed" in any way shape or form. I've spent some time at ranges to make sure I was accurate and I've taken classes in responsible handling because I wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. At the same time, because I 100% view it as a home defense mechanism, the idea of not having it makes me very uncomfortable. Knowing that it is there and it will work in the unlikely event that I need it to work...that I won't have to wonder if batteries have run out or a pepper spray has expired...that is reassuring. Schools are a unique situation in the firearm world because in most locations where firearms are not allowed, government buildings, etc there is some type of security in place. Usually at the doors with armed guards and metal detectors. Schools are the place where that isn't the case, which makes them a prime target for things like this. The part where it's frustrating to have this conversation is that I fully understand the concerns of both teachers and parents about the idea of having armed guards, etc in a school. The problem is that the amount of people who die is directly related to the response time of somebody stopping the shooter. Lock-down procedures that have been implemented are a great step in that direction to buy time for police to arrive. Maybe the solution is metal doors with bullet proof glass to allow classrooms to be secure in the event of an emergency? Beyond that, I can't think of many other ways to cut down response time other than having somebody on site, who is trained by police, authorized to do so. The problem solver in me wants to solve the problem, but there's not an easy answer unfortunately. What I do know is that when police are called, they are arriving at the school to stop the shooter with guns. In my mind it's increasingly difficult in the face of tragedies like this to ignore that fact and insist that the only people able to respond must be people who have to drive to the location to do so. But it's more difficult when the conversation centers on two groups of people who feel threatened. One group is threatened by people who have guns. The other is threatened by not having guns themselves.

jotm 9y ago

I mean, I'd own a gun or two if it wasn't such a hassle to get them. Just for fun. But as it is, I can just go to the local shooting range on the weekend and be done with it.