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Granted. (You're conflating the "intelligence community" with the "Bush administration," which is a little iffy, but I take your point.) And if this were just

Granted. (You're conflating the "intelligence community" with the "Bush administration," which is a little iffy, but I take your point.) And if this were just one source, or just one agency, or even just one political party, I might be more skeptical. (My usual routine when a story seems questionable is to check a source with the opposite political bias. If Fox and the WaPo both say something happened, I'm much more likely to believe that it did.) Not for nothing, but: "The fundamental purpose of dezinformatsiya, or Russian disinformation... is to undermine the official version of events — even the very idea that there is a true version of events" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/world/europe/russia-sweden-disinformation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/world/europe/russia-swede... Seems like it's working.

13years 9y ago
It wasn't just one source during the Bush administration either. It was both parties. Also, we supposedly shared our 'intelligence' with other Nations which all were convinced it was legit. We are quite good at propaganda also http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-b...
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  We already have one can of worms open, I have no interest in opening another can by relitigating the entirety of the Bush/Iraq years; they were exhausting enough to live through the first time around. I'll happily concede that the US engages in propaganda, and leave it at that. (Well, not "happily", but you know what I mean.)
smsm42 9y ago
It's definitely working - US political system is whipping itself into frenzy over "collusion" conspiracy theories while Putin comfortably arranges yet another rigged "election" for himself with no real opposition, suppresses dissent and imprisons anybody who dares to challenge him - and US can not even squeak a word about it since we're in the midst of declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime! If Putin indeed have foreseen it, and executed on this plan from a start, he's kinda genius. Or he's just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  Oh dear; now you've made me regret calling you "thoughtful" earlier. In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion; you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" for no apparent reason; somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy; and I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to, if anything at all. Impressive! But I'll give you this one: > [Putin]'s just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him. That's right on the nose.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    > In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion I am glad you are able to see it as two issues. 99% of the press isn't. > you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" Which it most definitely is, by definition - it's a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) and it's about a conspiracy. What is it if not conspiracy theory? > somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy I decided nothing of the sort. Of course US craziness is not to blame for Russian fake elections. But US craziness makes it harder for US to point to Russians that they just had fake elections, because Russians would say "didn't you just said telling other people about their elections is criminal? So please do shut up". US just shot itself in the foot on this one, and for no good reason whatsoever. > I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to Oh, you do have an idea, drop the pretense. You are perfectly aware what I am referring to, you just like to pretend it's not what it is saying. But, unfortunately, it is.
    - outsidetheparty 9y ago
      > it’s a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) Oh horsepucky. There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets and etc but I’m sure you’re quite as well familiar with it as I am. > You are perfectly aware what I am referring to I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is. Feel free to explain it, if you like.

13years 9y ago

It wasn't just one source during the Bush administration either. It was both parties. Also, we supposedly shared our 'intelligence' with other Nations which all were convinced it was legit. We are quite good at propaganda also http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-b...

outsidetheparty 9y ago
We already have one can of worms open, I have no interest in opening another can by relitigating the entirety of the Bush/Iraq years; they were exhausting enough to live through the first time around. I'll happily concede that the US engages in propaganda, and leave it at that. (Well, not "happily", but you know what I mean.)

smsm42 9y ago

It's definitely working - US political system is whipping itself into frenzy over "collusion" conspiracy theories while Putin comfortably arranges yet another rigged "election" for himself with no real opposition, suppresses dissent and imprisons anybody who dares to challenge him - and US can not even squeak a word about it since we're in the midst of declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime! If Putin indeed have foreseen it, and executed on this plan from a start, he's kinda genius. Or he's just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him.

outsidetheparty 9y ago
Oh dear; now you've made me regret calling you "thoughtful" earlier. In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion; you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" for no apparent reason; somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy; and I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to, if anything at all. Impressive! But I'll give you this one: > [Putin]'s just lucky US politics happened to be insane in a way that benefits him. That's right on the nose.
- smsm42 9y ago
  > In one short paragraph you've changed the subject from Russian election interference to the separate issue of Trump's collusion I am glad you are able to see it as two issues. 99% of the press isn't. > you've characterized that collusion as a "conspiracy theory" Which it most definitely is, by definition - it's a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) and it's about a conspiracy. What is it if not conspiracy theory? > somehow you've decided it's to blame for the rigged voting process within the Russian not-a-democracy I decided nothing of the sort. Of course US craziness is not to blame for Russian fake elections. But US craziness makes it harder for US to point to Russians that they just had fake elections, because Russians would say "didn't you just said telling other people about their elections is criminal? So please do shut up". US just shot itself in the foot on this one, and for no good reason whatsoever. > I have no idea what the bizarre "declaring anybody from foreign country speaking about anything happening in another country to be a crime" is in reference to Oh, you do have an idea, drop the pretense. You are perfectly aware what I am referring to, you just like to pretend it's not what it is saying. But, unfortunately, it is.
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    > it’s a theory (with no factual basis after two years of investigation) Oh horsepucky. There’s a sliiiight difference between “no factual basis” and “ongoing investigation whose results have of course not yet been made public.” There’s also no shortage of publicly available information supporting it; I could reel off the long list of meetings and shady-looking emails and trump tweets and etc but I’m sure you’re quite as well familiar with it as I am. > You are perfectly aware what I am referring to I really, genuinely, honestly have no idea what that lunatic raving is. Feel free to explain it, if you like.