4 ms·

The US Supreme Court ruled that fake news is not illegal under the 1st Amendment, United States v. Alvarez, 567 U.S. 709 (2012). Muller is attempting to turn t

by crb002 9y ago

The US Supreme Court ruled that fake news is not illegal under the 1st Amendment, United States v. Alvarez, 567 U.S. 709 (2012). Muller is attempting to turn the US into a totalitarian state where you can be prosecuted for saying something that is not truthful in the public sphere. When Thomas Jefferson ran against Adams they threw all kind of fake news like calling the other a hermaphrodite. When the government gets to decide what is true/false, that is the definition of totalitarianism.

abvdasker 9y ago
That Mueller's team would somehow want to erode the First Amendment is a pretty extreme belief bordering on conspiracy theory. I think this is less about material truth or lies and more about the fact that these ads were meant to influence US elections and paid for by foreign interests. Many US-based organizations can and do produce baseless "fake news" but it isn't seen as much of a problem because they represent the views of some kind of voting constituency.
- davesque 9y ago
  Bordering on conspiracy theory? He just said Mueller want to turn the US into a totalitarian state. That qualifies as an honest to God conspiracy theory in my book.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> The US Supreme Court ruled that fake news is not illegal under the 1st Amendment It's not illegal for foreign entities to lobby our government (or the American people). It's illegal to do it dishonestly, e.g. by "posing as U.S. persons and creating false U.S. personas" (¶ 3 of the indictment [1]) or using "without lawful authority, the social security numbers, home addresses, and birth dates of real U.S. persons to open accounts at PayPal" (¶ 90). Also, from ¶ 1 of the indictment [1]: "U.S. law...bars agents of any foreign entity from engaging in political activities within the United States without first registering with the Attorney General." [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380463-Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment.html#document/p37 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380463-Internet-Res... via Axios [a] [a] https://www.axios.com/mueller-indicts-13-russian-nationals-for-conspiracy-2498f173-ad1a-4609-b233-c40ea0c041dc.html https://www.axios.com/mueller-indicts-13-russian-nationals-f...
toxican 9y ago
Wow that is a gross misunderstanding of United States v. Alvarez you've got there. All that did was invalidate the "Stolen Valor Act" which made lying about earned military medals a crime. Obama signed a similar law the following year which made it illegal to lie about military medals for personal gain. So far that hasn't been challenged as unconstitutional, despite both bills being about lying about military medals. It's almost like the context and intent of the lie matters more than the lie itself.... If you want to construe this as a get out of jail free card for lying in every situation (to the FBI, etc.), I'm going to need to see that held up in court, citing that case as precedent. If you're going to drag a man through the mud with wild conspiracy theories, at least learn how to spell his name--It's Mueller, with an "e". I'm really not sure how you think this constitutes the government deciding what is true/false. They're charged with attempting to manipulate the election, committing lots of fraud, etc., but oddly enough not for daring to speak untruths.
doubles 9y ago
The counts in the indictment include: - Conspiracy to Defraud the United States - Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud and Bank Fraud - Aggravated Identity Theft This is more about misrepresentation than what was said.

by crb002 9y ago

abvdasker 9y ago

That Mueller's team would somehow want to erode the First Amendment is a pretty extreme belief bordering on conspiracy theory. I think this is less about material truth or lies and more about the fact that these ads were meant to influence US elections and paid for by foreign interests. Many US-based organizations can and do produce baseless "fake news" but it isn't seen as much of a problem because they represent the views of some kind of voting constituency.

davesque 9y ago
Bordering on conspiracy theory? He just said Mueller want to turn the US into a totalitarian state. That qualifies as an honest to God conspiracy theory in my book.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> The US Supreme Court ruled that fake news is not illegal under the 1st Amendment It's not illegal for foreign entities to lobby our government (or the American people). It's illegal to do it dishonestly, e.g. by "posing as U.S. persons and creating false U.S. personas" (¶ 3 of the indictment [1]) or using "without lawful authority, the social security numbers, home addresses, and birth dates of real U.S. persons to open accounts at PayPal" (¶ 90). Also, from ¶ 1 of the indictment [1]: "U.S. law...bars agents of any foreign entity from engaging in political activities within the United States without first registering with the Attorney General." [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380463-Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment.html#document/p37 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380463-Internet-Res... via Axios [a] [a] https://www.axios.com/mueller-indicts-13-russian-nationals-for-conspiracy-2498f173-ad1a-4609-b233-c40ea0c041dc.html https://www.axios.com/mueller-indicts-13-russian-nationals-f...

toxican 9y ago

Wow that is a gross misunderstanding of United States v. Alvarez you've got there. All that did was invalidate the "Stolen Valor Act" which made lying about earned military medals a crime. Obama signed a similar law the following year which made it illegal to lie about military medals for personal gain. So far that hasn't been challenged as unconstitutional, despite both bills being about lying about military medals. It's almost like the context and intent of the lie matters more than the lie itself.... If you want to construe this as a get out of jail free card for lying in every situation (to the FBI, etc.), I'm going to need to see that held up in court, citing that case as precedent. If you're going to drag a man through the mud with wild conspiracy theories, at least learn how to spell his name--It's Mueller, with an "e". I'm really not sure how you think this constitutes the government deciding what is true/false. They're charged with attempting to manipulate the election, committing lots of fraud, etc., but oddly enough not for daring to speak untruths.

doubles 9y ago

The counts in the indictment include: - Conspiracy to Defraud the United States - Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud and Bank Fraud - Aggravated Identity Theft This is more about misrepresentation than what was said.