23 ms·

Deodorants, perfumes, soaps pollute air at levels as high as cars

412 points by joshwa 9y ago

alex_young 9y ago
What kind of impact to greenhouse gasses? I'm guessing no where near that of cars. Probably some aerosol propellent but no CFCs anymore.
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  They cover it in the article. This is not about global warming; it’s about smog. Which leads to lung cancer etc. The relation of dying from lung cancer to dying from drowning by rising sea levels is merely incidental.
skookumchuck 9y ago
Lemon juice works as well as deodorants. A couple of drops under the arms, and it works all day. The bacteria that cause the odor doesn't grow in the acidic environment. Lemon juice is not an antiperspirant, though. Just a deodorant. A bottle of concentrated lemon juice will last a very long time.
- eco 9y ago
  I've been using one of those salt deodorants for awhile (just a block of salt that you wet and apply). Seems to work great though I've been fortunate to have never really had to deal with bad body odor so it's hard to say if I'm just imagining its effectiveness.
  - skookumchuck 9y ago
    There are many that likely work. The use of lemon juice has been around a long time, at least since the 1800s. It's just been forgotten about, as nobody makes any money selling lemon juice as a deodorant. It's not toxic, and simple to test on yourself, and you've probably already got a bottle of lemon juice in the refrigerator.
    - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
      I would think the sugar in lemon juice might be a little sticky (presumably the bacteria in that environment aren't used to having fructose)? Likely to decrease the pH you could use vinegar, among other things.
    - libdong 9y ago
      > It's not toxic, and simple to test on yourself, and you've probably already got a bottle of lemon juice in the refrigerator. Lemon juice contains a vast array of different chemicals, some of which may be phototoxic. It also releases VOCs (e.g. terpenes). I don't know how much compared to your average deodorant, though.
      - dandelany 9y ago
        I don’t think phototoxicity is much of a concern for something meant to be applied to one’s armpits...
  - culot 9y ago
    I use Liquid Rock from Kiss My Face and it works well. I did use an actually rock salt stick deodorant for a while. It was hit or miss.
- nordsieck 9y ago
  If acidity is all you care about, just get a bag of powdered citric acid so you can more carefully control the concentration.
- p0wn 9y ago
  Lemon juice DOES NOT WORK. You smell like shit. I promise you. I have friends who use lemon juice and it definitely does not work.
  - skookumchuck 9y ago
    It's easy enough to test. Use lemon juice on one side, and your favorite deodorant on the other. Of course, no deodorant is a substitute for soap and water now and then.
- code_duck 9y ago
  Apple cider vinegar works similarly, too.
3pt14159 9y ago
I know it sounds strange, but if you can make it through the first month or two of not using body soap or shampoo regularly you'll be better off in all ways. You won't need styling product for your hair, it will have a natural oil that works. You won't need deodorants or perfumes. And, if you can switch to cold showers, you won't need to use moisturizers either. I know 10 or 15 minute cold showers are less pleasant, but they wake you up and make the rest of the winter less hellish. I actually love the cold at this point.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Does this work if you have an active lifestyle? My commute involves quite a lot of physical exertion, and arriving stinky to work would not really be acceptable.
  - SerLava 9y ago
    For that, we use a mixture of two natural deodorizing compounds: Nose blindness Social mores
  - idoh 9y ago
    I have not made the leap to no soap, but my wife and I have stopped using shampoo and conditioner and it has been no problem at all. My wife is a PE teacher and is quite physically active and it is perfectly fine.
    - vkou 9y ago
      My hair is a mess when I don't use shampoo and conditioner, but I haven't used body soap in years. I've asked friends and co-workers about body odour, including ones that will call me out on my shit. Not a single one of them notices it. I don't, either - but I do notice it after I've done something athletic, or I haven't showered in 16 hours. I don't think it's because I'm desensitized. A shower and a clean change of clothes fixes that right up.
      - idoh 9y ago
jimrandomh 9y ago
Specifically volatile organic compounds, because cars don't emit very much of that particular type of pollution anymore. If you look at overall emissions across all types of air pollution, cars are still much worse.
- Hello71 9y ago
  so basically "deodorants smell more than car exhaust"?
- mirimir 9y ago
  Photocatalyzed reactions between NOx and hydrocarbons create ozone and particulates. Back in the day, US EPA focused on reducing hydrocarbon emissions from vehicles, paint and so on. Because it was easier than reducing NOx emissions from vehicles. The problem is that some areas, such as the Blue Ridge Mountains, have high natural hydrocarbon levels from trees. Plus personal care products. Without the NOx pollution, hydrocarbon emissions wouldn't be so problematic.
sxates 9y ago
I've been using a stainless steel "deoderant stick" [1] (it's just metal, no chemicals) for several years in the shower and its greatly reduced the amount of normal deodorant I use. The steel does a good job of eliminating odors. I only supplement with a dry-stick deodorant if I know I'm going to be getting hot and sweaty - most days at the office I skip it. Saves a lot of money too, since one of these will last you a whole lifetime most likely. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Odor-Works-Natural-Deodorant-Alternative/dp/B0040Y5JTO/ https://www.amazon.com/Odor-Works-Natural-Deodorant-Alternat...
- okket 9y ago
  33% 1 star reviews "Doesn't really work" "You could also use a stone instead or do nothing"
- comboy 9y ago
  How is this supposed to work? I'm assuming not many chemical reactions are happening around that stainless steel. So is this any different than using a sponge, your hand or whatever solid object?
  - avian 9y ago
    “Scientific evidence appears lacking.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel_soap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel_soap
    - sxates 9y ago
      Maybe nobody has spent money to do a study, but it does seem to work. I was skeptical when a friend suggested it, but I'll be darned if it doesn't work.
      - giardini 9y ago
        So it's like Niel Bohr's horseshoe that he hung above his office door. When asked if he thought it brought good luck, he would reply "No. But they say it works even if you don't believe in it." Perhaps I could kill two birds at once by selling stainless steel horseshoes for bathing use? "Uncle Bohr's Lucky Stainless Steel Bathing Horseshoe" or such?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Cyberdog 9y ago
I think those saying "but you're gonna stink if you don't use soap/deodorant!" in these threads should keep in mind that BO offensiveness is definitely something that varies from person to person based on genetic factors. So it's quite possible that some of these people saying they don't use deodorants or soaps do not offend those around them, and I'm willing to take them at their word. Me, I can be one of the stinky ones, so I will continue to foul up the earth with my soap bar and deodorant stick for your sake as well as my own.
- sametmax 9y ago
  It's also definitely a matter of culture. I've lived in Europe and Africa, traveled quite a lot in Asia and America, and what people consider offensive is very contextual, including odors. I noticed there is some link between how the society handle sexuality and the way we perceive odors. In south America and Africa, quite a lot of countries have a very natural approach to sex, and the body in general, and hence the odor of a healthy non-hobbo human is not perceived as such a problem, even after a day of work under the sun. In the US, despite having a culture very sex oriented, the population itself is not at all liberated. You are a very sexually frustrated society. And body odor is a problem.
  - dpark 9y ago
    > In south America and Africa, quite a lot of countries have a very natural approach to sex, and the body in general, and hence the odor of a healthy non-hobbo human is not perceived as such a problem, even after a day of work under the sun. I’ve heard the opposite, that South Americans often complain about smelly European tourists who don’t shower frequently enough. I’m also not sure I’d choose to use Africa as an example of healthy sexuality, what with the aids epidemic and FGM.
    - Cyberdog 9y ago
      Yes, while I think the link between cultural sexuality and BO acceptance is tenuous and probably unmeasurable, the greater point that the level at which BO becomes unacceptable is culturally subjective is well worth making. Also, I can't believe that I am actually participating in a conversation about this. Definitely wasn't on my list of things to get done today. Funny the directions in which life takes us.
jenkstom 9y ago
The scents they use in air fresheners, candles, whatever, are just plain 100% pure evil. I've had more migraines and asthma attacks in the months they put in new air fresheners at work than the entire decade before. There should be laws against it.
- dleslie 9y ago
  If you're Canadian then there generally is. [0][1] 0: https://ccohs.ca/oshanswers/hsprograms/scent_free.html https://ccohs.ca/oshanswers/hsprograms/scent_free.html 1: https://www.allergicliving.com/2010/07/02/scent-free-workplace-rights/ https://www.allergicliving.com/2010/07/02/scent-free-workpla...
  - thesmallestcat 9y ago
    Forget public healthcare, I'd gladly live in Canada for this protection!
    - firethief 9y ago
      Public healthcare incentivizes the government to protect people's health; the American system incentivizes politicians to protect the profit margins of the insurance industry.
      - ssambros 9y ago
        Private healthcare incentivizes insurance companies to protect people's health and to influence policies that do so.
        thesmallestcat 9y ago
        I sort of doubt that. In practice, it seems to incentivize influencing policy to drive up healthcare costs, with little regard for patient outcomes.
twtw 9y ago
I don't get it. Soap doesn't seem very volatile. The article leads with deodorant and soap but the rest is about paint and lacquer, which seem way more volatile than soap. How does my soap get into the air? Is it volatile and I just don't know?
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  The study[0] in ScienceMag this article revolves around seems to focus on on Volatile Chemical Products (VCP's) derived from petrochemicals. From the abstract: >We show that human exposure to carbonaceous aerosols of fossil origin is transitioning away from transportation-related sources and toward VCP's. and from the study itself: >Most organic compounds in soaps and detergents dissolve in water and end up in sewer systems (20), with negligible amounts emitted from wastewater treatment plants (21). And my takeaway is: e.g. organic compounds in the soaps used for dish-washing and showering don't VOC-off, but instead are carried away by the drain and are almost entirely captured in wastewater treatment. So, when this article mentions soaps, I'd hazard to restrict that to spray soaps derived from petrochemicals. [0]http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6377/760.full http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6377/760.full
  - guelo 9y ago
    In the study's supplemental materials there's a table that breaks out personal care into Hair Care, Perfumes, Lotions, Shaving & Mouthwashes, and Other Cosmetics. No mention of soap.
    - 24gttghh 9y ago
      Indeed, the study mentions soap by word only once (my second quote), in what I took as a counter-example to the products you listed.
- dpark 9y ago
  The scents that many soaps are filled with are volatile. Which is why you can smell them. It’s not clear how much soaps really contribute, though, given that all consumer products were lumped together.
clumsysmurf 9y ago
Regarding deodorant, has anyone tried AO https://shop.motherdirt.com/product/ao-mist-2/ https://shop.motherdirt.com/product/ao-mist-2/
f4rker 9y ago
That makes zero sense. Oh , the source is the NYTimes? Nevermind then - carry on.
tomc1985 9y ago
And smell just as bad! Seriously how do people douse themselves in these things that so nakedly smell like chemicals and alcohol? So many otherwise beautiful people have had their impressions ruined because they smelt like a bar crawl that finished up in a perfumery.
tomohawk 9y ago
I've had many a walk through the neighborhood spoiled by one household doing the laundry, and using Downy or some other fabric softener. It stinks up the whole neighborhood. Not to mention the scent overload when people wear clothes treated this way to work. Just use white vinegar instead - it works and doesn't cause all the pollution.
- rabboRubble 9y ago
  x2 vinegar. It works for all sorts of household cleaning. I use it on floors with a touch of Dawn, shower cleaner in a 1:1 ratio boiling hot vinegar to Dawn with baking soda as a kicker, glass cleaner, 1:1 cold water and vinegar on dog pee marks and carpet spots, etc. About the only thing vinegar is not recommended on is wood products.
  - KhanMahGretsch 9y ago
    Baking-soda and vinegar lays waste to bathtub stains in a way that can only be described as brutal! 10-min soak and scrubbing with those tiny crystals makes it brand-new.
    - EvanAnderson 9y ago
      I really like the results of bathroom cleaning with vinegar but I end up with a very raw-feeling throat and sore eyes afterwards. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
      - awinder 9y ago
        You’re not messing with bleach right...
        EvanAnderson 9y ago
        Oh, no. Just vinegar and water. It does wonders for soap scum in grout. My guess is that I'm getting the inflamed mucous membranes from the low PH vapor coming off the vinegar...
colanderman 9y ago
Does this also apply to unscented versions of these products? I strongly dislike scented products and try to purchase as few as possible. But it is usually impossible to find unscented soap/shampoo/deodorant in many stores. I've never understood why... Do consumers really so strongly prefer hand soap with arbitrary smells added to it?
- culot 9y ago
  I think many people just don't know anything else than the typical supermarket variety. I was talking soap lately and when I said I loved how the soap left no smell behind they replied that they preferred to be left smelling 'clean', ie smelling like typical supermarket bar soap. Many people I've met associate that awful smell with cleanliness.
- coatmatter 9y ago
  > Do consumers really so strongly prefer hand soap with arbitrary smells added to it? I think most just don't care and don't really sense it. I don't care when I'm in public restrooms so long as there's liquid handsoap (or even bar soap if nothing else). But at home I mostly use sorbolene not because it's unscented (I think?), but because it doesn't have my skin dry and crack in winter. Otherwise in summer, I'm happy to just use the cheapest handsoap and bar soap for shower. Speaking of which, I don't like body wash (it's too cumbersome to use) and think it's only been popularised recently through marketing. All that said, when I'm in a kitchen, I'm more than happy to just use the dishwashing detergent... One time a coworker was astounded I washed my hands with the detergent in the break room; quite amusing. I feel it cuts through grease really well, and saves me having to have an extra handsoap dispenser by the sink. But yeah, the rest of the time it's sorbolene for me if the weather's dry.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
So if I want to keep using deodorant and soap, is there an environmentally-friendly class of products I should steer towards? (I tend to use bar soap and stick deodorant.)
InclinedPlane 9y ago
There's a funny thing going on here which cuts both ways, you get used to your own smells. This means that if you don't use deodorant (or don't shower regularly!) by the time your own BO smell is noticeable you are, in fact, quite ripe and other people around you have been noticing a lot. And on the other hand, if you use scented deodorants, soap/body wash, detergent, dryer sheets, or perfume the level where you can smell them distinctly is where they are basically overpowering for someone who hasn't been steeping in them for days/weeks. Which is why such scented things tend to have such overpowering smells, they're calibrated to a level of smell for someone who is already used to that smell. Unfortunately, the middle ground isn't well represented in the market. I long ago made the switch to more lightly scented and unscented hygiene products and sometimes it takes a lot more work than it should. Fortunately there are clothes detergents and dryer sheets that are unscented that you can buy in many stores, however for body wash and deodorant I basically always have to buy online (I ended up just using an "unscented body wash base" and a fragrance free hypoallergenic anti-perspirant). It's very frustrating to have such a simple need (fragrance free common products) be so difficult to fulfill. Maybe things will change, I remember when it was hard to find soy milk in most grocery stores and that's changed dramatically.
zzz95 9y ago
Sweat itself doesn't have much of a stink. But if you let it ferment, it is unbearable. As long as you take a bath daily, change to a fresh pair of clothes daily and are not sweating all the time, BO is never really a problem.
beloch 9y ago
"Most organic compounds in soaps and detergents dissolve in water and end up in sewer systems (20), with negligible amounts emitted from wastewater treatment plants (21)" I didn't read the full paper, but this is the only mention of soap in there. Soap seems to be okay with respect to air pollution. Mind you, a lot of "bath bars" on the market these days are not soap, but that's a completely different topic. Perhaps the article about this paper (and unwashed hippies in general) are wrong about soap? From the abstract: "A detailed mass balance demonstrates that the use of volatile chemical products (VCPs)—including pesticides, coatings, printing inks, adhesives, cleaning agents, and personal care products now constitutes half of fossil fuel VOC emissions in industrialized cities." Okay... That is not what the linked article says at all.
- saganus 9y ago
  A bit off topic but, what are "bath bars"? I don't think I've heard of them before. The soaps I know are soap bars and as I understand it, they are basically made from fat and lye (or their modern equivalents). What are these bath bars made of?
  - marmshallow 9y ago
    I was curious too. See https://www.polishandlather.com/blogs/news/13264093-what-do-you-mean-dove-isnt-soap https://www.polishandlather.com/blogs/news/13264093-what-do-...
    - djsumdog 9y ago
      huh. Today I learned... I've always liked the home made stuff you find at street and farmers markets; bigger variety in scents for sure. Also thinking about the soap making process makes me think of Fight Club.
      - mr_spothawk 9y ago
        what’s fight club?
netheril96 9y ago
Fun fact: east asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Mongols) seldom use deodorants, because of a mutation of the gene ABCC11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11) resulting in dramatic reduction of the sweat glands responsible for the strong body odor.
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  I wonder which races sweat the most. I'm basically Irish, and boy do I sweat. Even when I was young and fit, I would be drenched when my co-workers/friends looked dry. My brother once asked the family doctor about his sweating. The doc just said everyone is different.
  - koala_man 9y ago
    In their native habitat or at a standardized temperature? I'm Scandinavian, and I'm comfy and dry when I can wake up seeing my own breath. After moving to California, though, I'm pretty sure I'm single handedly ending the drought.
  - BostonEnginerd 9y ago
    I'm also of Irish descent and am usually the last person to start sweating.
  - netheril96 9y ago
    Excessive sweating is probably a disease rather than race-related. In Chinese traditional medicine it is called 虚汗, so it definitely can affect at least one more race than Irish.
- yorwba 9y ago
  Interestingly, the Wikipedia article mentions that (a different?) variation of the gene influences the amount of volatile organic compounds in ear wax. Quite the coincidence!
auvrw 9y ago
yet another reason to trust dr. bronner... ... on "evidence-based" (cf. CDC) v heuristic reasoning: certain aftershaves and similar make me gag. knowing it's because of petrol is just the evidence i need to become self-righteous about it :D
mfkp 9y ago
Priceonomics (which I believe is a YC company?) recently did a write-up on VOCs in common household products and the resulting effect on air quality in your home. The results definitely surprised me and I switched a few of my cleaning supplies: https://priceonomics.com/which-cleaning-products-pollute-your-home-the-most/ https://priceonomics.com/which-cleaning-products-pollute-you...
oblib 9y ago
Perfumes and vapor from most petrol based solvents really get to me. It took me until I was around 30 years old to really get a handle on that but doing so made a huge difference in my quality of life. Wasn't easy on my wife and kids though. They all thought I was a major grump because I became so adamant about not using hairsprays, perfumes, nail polish and polish remover, in our house but that stuff makes me feel like crap and gives me pounding headaches. Makes me feel like a bug sprayed with "Raid" (which is another thing I banned in our house). As a teen, I started thinking I must have some kind of psychosomatic issues because I'd get to feeling like crap at school, work, church, family get togethers, and dates with girls, etc. That was reinforced when I noticed that when I did feel like crap if I went outdoors and spent a day a walking in a park, which I really loved to do, I would feel great afterwards. That almost convinced me I was making myself sick when I "had to do" something I didn't really want to do, but I could never nail that theory down because it wasn't consistent enough. Finally, someone mentioned I might be "chemically sensitive". I had vaguely heard of that but never considered I might be. They inspired me to start paying closer attention to things like perfumes, and anything scented like candles, detergents, soaps, shampoos, and paints and solvents. When I did I soon realized I was being bombarded with them. They were everywhere. At home, at work, at Shopping Malls and stores, and anywhere people were gathered, and those were all connected to me feeling like crap. So I started avoiding them and getting rid of them in my life but it wasn't easy. I had to be vigilant about it. My wife and kids would sneak stuff in and while I couldn't always smell it, I would get to feeling like crap and then go on a mission to find the source, and I always found it and got rid of it and started feeling better right away. I've been doing that now for almost 30 years and have felt great (normal) since. And over those years I've realized I can tolerate short durations of exposure better now. I suspect because I don't have much in my system to begin with, and I generally avoid places (and people) that are using perfumes and scents. I've even been able to pinpoint some scents that really smack me down. Something in that "Axe Body Scent" is one of them I get away from as fast as I can. Whatever it is, it is used in a lot of products and I can detect it like a hound dog now. What's really interesting to me is now that my kids are adults none of them use that stuff anymore because they found it craps them out too. Same with my wife. She can't be exposed to perfumes for very long now without realizing they crap her out too. I do wonder if others have experienced this. It's not something I hear about much.
aaron695 9y ago
It's pretty disturbing this whole thread doesn't currently mention PM2.5 the entire point of the article and one of the big killers in the world. But that's HN, lets talk about scented soap instead.
tyingq 9y ago
There's a recurring thing where I run into a person with a very "spicy" potpourri type odor. Happens in elevators and other confined spaces, and the odor is really pungent. Seems to span cultures... sometimes an old white lady, other times a young Indian male, other times just random people. WTF is this smell? Somewhat like cloves, but worse and more nauseating.

412 points by joshwa 9y ago

What kind of impact to greenhouse gasses? I'm guessing no where near that of cars. Probably some aerosol propellent but no CFCs anymore.

nothrabannosir 9y ago
They cover it in the article. This is not about global warming; it’s about smog. Which leads to lung cancer etc. The relation of dying from lung cancer to dying from drowning by rising sea levels is merely incidental.

skookumchuck 9y ago

Lemon juice works as well as deodorants. A couple of drops under the arms, and it works all day. The bacteria that cause the odor doesn't grow in the acidic environment. Lemon juice is not an antiperspirant, though. Just a deodorant. A bottle of concentrated lemon juice will last a very long time.

eco 9y ago
I've been using one of those salt deodorants for awhile (just a block of salt that you wet and apply). Seems to work great though I've been fortunate to have never really had to deal with bad body odor so it's hard to say if I'm just imagining its effectiveness.
- skookumchuck 9y ago
  There are many that likely work. The use of lemon juice has been around a long time, at least since the 1800s. It's just been forgotten about, as nobody makes any money selling lemon juice as a deodorant. It's not toxic, and simple to test on yourself, and you've probably already got a bottle of lemon juice in the refrigerator.
  - blacksmith_tb 9y ago
    I would think the sugar in lemon juice might be a little sticky (presumably the bacteria in that environment aren't used to having fructose)? Likely to decrease the pH you could use vinegar, among other things.
  - libdong 9y ago
    > It's not toxic, and simple to test on yourself, and you've probably already got a bottle of lemon juice in the refrigerator. Lemon juice contains a vast array of different chemicals, some of which may be phototoxic. It also releases VOCs (e.g. terpenes). I don't know how much compared to your average deodorant, though.
    - dandelany 9y ago
      I don’t think phototoxicity is much of a concern for something meant to be applied to one’s armpits...
- culot 9y ago
  I use Liquid Rock from Kiss My Face and it works well. I did use an actually rock salt stick deodorant for a while. It was hit or miss.
nordsieck 9y ago
If acidity is all you care about, just get a bag of powdered citric acid so you can more carefully control the concentration.
p0wn 9y ago
Lemon juice DOES NOT WORK. You smell like shit. I promise you. I have friends who use lemon juice and it definitely does not work.
- skookumchuck 9y ago
  It's easy enough to test. Use lemon juice on one side, and your favorite deodorant on the other. Of course, no deodorant is a substitute for soap and water now and then.
code_duck 9y ago
Apple cider vinegar works similarly, too.

3pt14159 9y ago

I know it sounds strange, but if you can make it through the first month or two of not using body soap or shampoo regularly you'll be better off in all ways. You won't need styling product for your hair, it will have a natural oil that works. You won't need deodorants or perfumes. And, if you can switch to cold showers, you won't need to use moisturizers either. I know 10 or 15 minute cold showers are less pleasant, but they wake you up and make the rest of the winter less hellish. I actually love the cold at this point.

jdavis703 9y ago
Does this work if you have an active lifestyle? My commute involves quite a lot of physical exertion, and arriving stinky to work would not really be acceptable.
- SerLava 9y ago
  For that, we use a mixture of two natural deodorizing compounds: Nose blindness Social mores
- idoh 9y ago
  I have not made the leap to no soap, but my wife and I have stopped using shampoo and conditioner and it has been no problem at all. My wife is a PE teacher and is quite physically active and it is perfectly fine.
  - vkou 9y ago
    My hair is a mess when I don't use shampoo and conditioner, but I haven't used body soap in years. I've asked friends and co-workers about body odour, including ones that will call me out on my shit. Not a single one of them notices it. I don't, either - but I do notice it after I've done something athletic, or I haven't showered in 16 hours. I don't think it's because I'm desensitized. A shower and a clean change of clothes fixes that right up.
    - idoh 9y ago

jimrandomh 9y ago

Specifically volatile organic compounds, because cars don't emit very much of that particular type of pollution anymore. If you look at overall emissions across all types of air pollution, cars are still much worse.

Hello71 9y ago
so basically "deodorants smell more than car exhaust"?
mirimir 9y ago
Photocatalyzed reactions between NOx and hydrocarbons create ozone and particulates. Back in the day, US EPA focused on reducing hydrocarbon emissions from vehicles, paint and so on. Because it was easier than reducing NOx emissions from vehicles. The problem is that some areas, such as the Blue Ridge Mountains, have high natural hydrocarbon levels from trees. Plus personal care products. Without the NOx pollution, hydrocarbon emissions wouldn't be so problematic.

sxates 9y ago

I've been using a stainless steel "deoderant stick" [1] (it's just metal, no chemicals) for several years in the shower and its greatly reduced the amount of normal deodorant I use. The steel does a good job of eliminating odors. I only supplement with a dry-stick deodorant if I know I'm going to be getting hot and sweaty - most days at the office I skip it. Saves a lot of money too, since one of these will last you a whole lifetime most likely. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Odor-Works-Natural-Deodorant-Alternative/dp/B0040Y5JTO/ https://www.amazon.com/Odor-Works-Natural-Deodorant-Alternat...

okket 9y ago
33% 1 star reviews "Doesn't really work" "You could also use a stone instead or do nothing"
comboy 9y ago
How is this supposed to work? I'm assuming not many chemical reactions are happening around that stainless steel. So is this any different than using a sponge, your hand or whatever solid object?
- avian 9y ago
  “Scientific evidence appears lacking.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel_soap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel_soap
  - sxates 9y ago
    Maybe nobody has spent money to do a study, but it does seem to work. I was skeptical when a friend suggested it, but I'll be darned if it doesn't work.
    - giardini 9y ago
      So it's like Niel Bohr's horseshoe that he hung above his office door. When asked if he thought it brought good luck, he would reply "No. But they say it works even if you don't believe in it." Perhaps I could kill two birds at once by selling stainless steel horseshoes for bathing use? "Uncle Bohr's Lucky Stainless Steel Bathing Horseshoe" or such?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Cyberdog 9y ago

I think those saying "but you're gonna stink if you don't use soap/deodorant!" in these threads should keep in mind that BO offensiveness is definitely something that varies from person to person based on genetic factors. So it's quite possible that some of these people saying they don't use deodorants or soaps do not offend those around them, and I'm willing to take them at their word. Me, I can be one of the stinky ones, so I will continue to foul up the earth with my soap bar and deodorant stick for your sake as well as my own.

sametmax 9y ago
It's also definitely a matter of culture. I've lived in Europe and Africa, traveled quite a lot in Asia and America, and what people consider offensive is very contextual, including odors. I noticed there is some link between how the society handle sexuality and the way we perceive odors. In south America and Africa, quite a lot of countries have a very natural approach to sex, and the body in general, and hence the odor of a healthy non-hobbo human is not perceived as such a problem, even after a day of work under the sun. In the US, despite having a culture very sex oriented, the population itself is not at all liberated. You are a very sexually frustrated society. And body odor is a problem.
- dpark 9y ago
  > In south America and Africa, quite a lot of countries have a very natural approach to sex, and the body in general, and hence the odor of a healthy non-hobbo human is not perceived as such a problem, even after a day of work under the sun. I’ve heard the opposite, that South Americans often complain about smelly European tourists who don’t shower frequently enough. I’m also not sure I’d choose to use Africa as an example of healthy sexuality, what with the aids epidemic and FGM.
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    Yes, while I think the link between cultural sexuality and BO acceptance is tenuous and probably unmeasurable, the greater point that the level at which BO becomes unacceptable is culturally subjective is well worth making. Also, I can't believe that I am actually participating in a conversation about this. Definitely wasn't on my list of things to get done today. Funny the directions in which life takes us.

jenkstom 9y ago

The scents they use in air fresheners, candles, whatever, are just plain 100% pure evil. I've had more migraines and asthma attacks in the months they put in new air fresheners at work than the entire decade before. There should be laws against it.

dleslie 9y ago
If you're Canadian then there generally is. [0][1] 0: https://ccohs.ca/oshanswers/hsprograms/scent_free.html https://ccohs.ca/oshanswers/hsprograms/scent_free.html 1: https://www.allergicliving.com/2010/07/02/scent-free-workplace-rights/ https://www.allergicliving.com/2010/07/02/scent-free-workpla...
- thesmallestcat 9y ago
  Forget public healthcare, I'd gladly live in Canada for this protection!
  - firethief 9y ago
    Public healthcare incentivizes the government to protect people's health; the American system incentivizes politicians to protect the profit margins of the insurance industry.
    - ssambros 9y ago
      Private healthcare incentivizes insurance companies to protect people's health and to influence policies that do so.
      - thesmallestcat 9y ago
        I sort of doubt that. In practice, it seems to incentivize influencing policy to drive up healthcare costs, with little regard for patient outcomes.

twtw 9y ago

I don't get it. Soap doesn't seem very volatile. The article leads with deodorant and soap but the rest is about paint and lacquer, which seem way more volatile than soap. How does my soap get into the air? Is it volatile and I just don't know?

24gttghh 9y ago
The study[0] in ScienceMag this article revolves around seems to focus on on Volatile Chemical Products (VCP's) derived from petrochemicals. From the abstract: >We show that human exposure to carbonaceous aerosols of fossil origin is transitioning away from transportation-related sources and toward VCP's. and from the study itself: >Most organic compounds in soaps and detergents dissolve in water and end up in sewer systems (20), with negligible amounts emitted from wastewater treatment plants (21). And my takeaway is: e.g. organic compounds in the soaps used for dish-washing and showering don't VOC-off, but instead are carried away by the drain and are almost entirely captured in wastewater treatment. So, when this article mentions soaps, I'd hazard to restrict that to spray soaps derived from petrochemicals. [0]http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6377/760.full http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6377/760.full
- guelo 9y ago
  In the study's supplemental materials there's a table that breaks out personal care into Hair Care, Perfumes, Lotions, Shaving & Mouthwashes, and Other Cosmetics. No mention of soap.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    Indeed, the study mentions soap by word only once (my second quote), in what I took as a counter-example to the products you listed.
dpark 9y ago
The scents that many soaps are filled with are volatile. Which is why you can smell them. It’s not clear how much soaps really contribute, though, given that all consumer products were lumped together.

clumsysmurf 9y ago

Regarding deodorant, has anyone tried AO https://shop.motherdirt.com/product/ao-mist-2/ https://shop.motherdirt.com/product/ao-mist-2/

f4rker 9y ago

That makes zero sense. Oh , the source is the NYTimes? Nevermind then - carry on.

tomc1985 9y ago

And smell just as bad! Seriously how do people douse themselves in these things that so nakedly smell like chemicals and alcohol? So many otherwise beautiful people have had their impressions ruined because they smelt like a bar crawl that finished up in a perfumery.

tomohawk 9y ago

I've had many a walk through the neighborhood spoiled by one household doing the laundry, and using Downy or some other fabric softener. It stinks up the whole neighborhood. Not to mention the scent overload when people wear clothes treated this way to work. Just use white vinegar instead - it works and doesn't cause all the pollution.

rabboRubble 9y ago
x2 vinegar. It works for all sorts of household cleaning. I use it on floors with a touch of Dawn, shower cleaner in a 1:1 ratio boiling hot vinegar to Dawn with baking soda as a kicker, glass cleaner, 1:1 cold water and vinegar on dog pee marks and carpet spots, etc. About the only thing vinegar is not recommended on is wood products.
- KhanMahGretsch 9y ago
  Baking-soda and vinegar lays waste to bathtub stains in a way that can only be described as brutal! 10-min soak and scrubbing with those tiny crystals makes it brand-new.
  - EvanAnderson 9y ago
    I really like the results of bathroom cleaning with vinegar but I end up with a very raw-feeling throat and sore eyes afterwards. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
    - awinder 9y ago
      You’re not messing with bleach right...
      - EvanAnderson 9y ago
        Oh, no. Just vinegar and water. It does wonders for soap scum in grout. My guess is that I'm getting the inflamed mucous membranes from the low PH vapor coming off the vinegar...

colanderman 9y ago

Does this also apply to unscented versions of these products? I strongly dislike scented products and try to purchase as few as possible. But it is usually impossible to find unscented soap/shampoo/deodorant in many stores. I've never understood why... Do consumers really so strongly prefer hand soap with arbitrary smells added to it?

culot 9y ago
I think many people just don't know anything else than the typical supermarket variety. I was talking soap lately and when I said I loved how the soap left no smell behind they replied that they preferred to be left smelling 'clean', ie smelling like typical supermarket bar soap. Many people I've met associate that awful smell with cleanliness.
coatmatter 9y ago
> Do consumers really so strongly prefer hand soap with arbitrary smells added to it? I think most just don't care and don't really sense it. I don't care when I'm in public restrooms so long as there's liquid handsoap (or even bar soap if nothing else). But at home I mostly use sorbolene not because it's unscented (I think?), but because it doesn't have my skin dry and crack in winter. Otherwise in summer, I'm happy to just use the cheapest handsoap and bar soap for shower. Speaking of which, I don't like body wash (it's too cumbersome to use) and think it's only been popularised recently through marketing. All that said, when I'm in a kitchen, I'm more than happy to just use the dishwashing detergent... One time a coworker was astounded I washed my hands with the detergent in the break room; quite amusing. I feel it cuts through grease really well, and saves me having to have an extra handsoap dispenser by the sink. But yeah, the rest of the time it's sorbolene for me if the weather's dry.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

So if I want to keep using deodorant and soap, is there an environmentally-friendly class of products I should steer towards? (I tend to use bar soap and stick deodorant.)

InclinedPlane 9y ago

There's a funny thing going on here which cuts both ways, you get used to your own smells. This means that if you don't use deodorant (or don't shower regularly!) by the time your own BO smell is noticeable you are, in fact, quite ripe and other people around you have been noticing a lot. And on the other hand, if you use scented deodorants, soap/body wash, detergent, dryer sheets, or perfume the level where you can smell them distinctly is where they are basically overpowering for someone who hasn't been steeping in them for days/weeks. Which is why such scented things tend to have such overpowering smells, they're calibrated to a level of smell for someone who is already used to that smell. Unfortunately, the middle ground isn't well represented in the market. I long ago made the switch to more lightly scented and unscented hygiene products and sometimes it takes a lot more work than it should. Fortunately there are clothes detergents and dryer sheets that are unscented that you can buy in many stores, however for body wash and deodorant I basically always have to buy online (I ended up just using an "unscented body wash base" and a fragrance free hypoallergenic anti-perspirant). It's very frustrating to have such a simple need (fragrance free common products) be so difficult to fulfill. Maybe things will change, I remember when it was hard to find soy milk in most grocery stores and that's changed dramatically.

zzz95 9y ago

Sweat itself doesn't have much of a stink. But if you let it ferment, it is unbearable. As long as you take a bath daily, change to a fresh pair of clothes daily and are not sweating all the time, BO is never really a problem.

beloch 9y ago

"Most organic compounds in soaps and detergents dissolve in water and end up in sewer systems (20), with negligible amounts emitted from wastewater treatment plants (21)" I didn't read the full paper, but this is the only mention of soap in there. Soap seems to be okay with respect to air pollution. Mind you, a lot of "bath bars" on the market these days are not soap, but that's a completely different topic. Perhaps the article about this paper (and unwashed hippies in general) are wrong about soap? From the abstract: "A detailed mass balance demonstrates that the use of volatile chemical products (VCPs)—including pesticides, coatings, printing inks, adhesives, cleaning agents, and personal care products now constitutes half of fossil fuel VOC emissions in industrialized cities." Okay... That is not what the linked article says at all.

saganus 9y ago
A bit off topic but, what are "bath bars"? I don't think I've heard of them before. The soaps I know are soap bars and as I understand it, they are basically made from fat and lye (or their modern equivalents). What are these bath bars made of?
- marmshallow 9y ago
  I was curious too. See https://www.polishandlather.com/blogs/news/13264093-what-do-you-mean-dove-isnt-soap https://www.polishandlather.com/blogs/news/13264093-what-do-...
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    huh. Today I learned... I've always liked the home made stuff you find at street and farmers markets; bigger variety in scents for sure. Also thinking about the soap making process makes me think of Fight Club.
    - mr_spothawk 9y ago
      what’s fight club?

netheril96 9y ago

Fun fact: east asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Mongols) seldom use deodorants, because of a mutation of the gene ABCC11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11) resulting in dramatic reduction of the sweat glands responsible for the strong body odor.

icantdrive55 9y ago
I wonder which races sweat the most. I'm basically Irish, and boy do I sweat. Even when I was young and fit, I would be drenched when my co-workers/friends looked dry. My brother once asked the family doctor about his sweating. The doc just said everyone is different.
- koala_man 9y ago
  In their native habitat or at a standardized temperature? I'm Scandinavian, and I'm comfy and dry when I can wake up seeing my own breath. After moving to California, though, I'm pretty sure I'm single handedly ending the drought.
- BostonEnginerd 9y ago
  I'm also of Irish descent and am usually the last person to start sweating.
- netheril96 9y ago
  Excessive sweating is probably a disease rather than race-related. In Chinese traditional medicine it is called 虚汗, so it definitely can affect at least one more race than Irish.
yorwba 9y ago
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article mentions that (a different?) variation of the gene influences the amount of volatile organic compounds in ear wax. Quite the coincidence!

auvrw 9y ago

yet another reason to trust dr. bronner... ... on "evidence-based" (cf. CDC) v heuristic reasoning: certain aftershaves and similar make me gag. knowing it's because of petrol is just the evidence i need to become self-righteous about it :D

mfkp 9y ago

Priceonomics (which I believe is a YC company?) recently did a write-up on VOCs in common household products and the resulting effect on air quality in your home. The results definitely surprised me and I switched a few of my cleaning supplies: https://priceonomics.com/which-cleaning-products-pollute-your-home-the-most/ https://priceonomics.com/which-cleaning-products-pollute-you...

oblib 9y ago

Perfumes and vapor from most petrol based solvents really get to me. It took me until I was around 30 years old to really get a handle on that but doing so made a huge difference in my quality of life. Wasn't easy on my wife and kids though. They all thought I was a major grump because I became so adamant about not using hairsprays, perfumes, nail polish and polish remover, in our house but that stuff makes me feel like crap and gives me pounding headaches. Makes me feel like a bug sprayed with "Raid" (which is another thing I banned in our house). As a teen, I started thinking I must have some kind of psychosomatic issues because I'd get to feeling like crap at school, work, church, family get togethers, and dates with girls, etc. That was reinforced when I noticed that when I did feel like crap if I went outdoors and spent a day a walking in a park, which I really loved to do, I would feel great afterwards. That almost convinced me I was making myself sick when I "had to do" something I didn't really want to do, but I could never nail that theory down because it wasn't consistent enough. Finally, someone mentioned I might be "chemically sensitive". I had vaguely heard of that but never considered I might be. They inspired me to start paying closer attention to things like perfumes, and anything scented like candles, detergents, soaps, shampoos, and paints and solvents. When I did I soon realized I was being bombarded with them. They were everywhere. At home, at work, at Shopping Malls and stores, and anywhere people were gathered, and those were all connected to me feeling like crap. So I started avoiding them and getting rid of them in my life but it wasn't easy. I had to be vigilant about it. My wife and kids would sneak stuff in and while I couldn't always smell it, I would get to feeling like crap and then go on a mission to find the source, and I always found it and got rid of it and started feeling better right away. I've been doing that now for almost 30 years and have felt great (normal) since. And over those years I've realized I can tolerate short durations of exposure better now. I suspect because I don't have much in my system to begin with, and I generally avoid places (and people) that are using perfumes and scents. I've even been able to pinpoint some scents that really smack me down. Something in that "Axe Body Scent" is one of them I get away from as fast as I can. Whatever it is, it is used in a lot of products and I can detect it like a hound dog now. What's really interesting to me is now that my kids are adults none of them use that stuff anymore because they found it craps them out too. Same with my wife. She can't be exposed to perfumes for very long now without realizing they crap her out too. I do wonder if others have experienced this. It's not something I hear about much.

aaron695 9y ago

It's pretty disturbing this whole thread doesn't currently mention PM2.5 the entire point of the article and one of the big killers in the world. But that's HN, lets talk about scented soap instead.

tyingq 9y ago

There's a recurring thing where I run into a person with a very "spicy" potpourri type odor. Happens in elevators and other confined spaces, and the odor is really pungent. Seems to span cultures... sometimes an old white lady, other times a young Indian male, other times just random people. WTF is this smell? Somewhat like cloves, but worse and more nauseating.