9 ms·

I remember just a few years ago, I got a new phone and was interested in replacing as many Google apps with OSS maps that I could. (K9 instead of Google's mail

by acabal 9y ago

I remember just a few years ago, I got a new phone and was interested in replacing as many Google apps with OSS maps that I could. (K9 instead of Google's mail app, etc.) Naturally I turned to OSM instead of Google Maps. But I was really surprised by how strange and difficult it was to install and use. As the author mentioned, OSM itself doesn't have any apps, which is very confusing. After some research I figured out that you have to download a 3rd party app. The 3rd party apps that do exist all use different terminologies, require downloading huge amounts of data and picking what maps you want ahead of time, and had different levels of functionality. The UIs were universally terrible (at the time at least). Needless to say I quickly gave up on using OSM and turned back to Google Maps--and I'm their perfect use case, a skilled techie with a deep interest in using free software! I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom, even if I somehow managed to install it for her. I can't comment on the rest of the article but its usability worries are on point.

leokennis 9y ago
Exactly. If the alternative is Google Maps (or even Apple Maps), it’s not good enough to make me pay $5 to download a map of 1 country and forcing me to keep 500mb of data on my device permanently.
striking 9y ago
Maps.me is pretty killer, though. The only issue I see with OSM is lack of traffic data. Generally when I drive with Google Maps, I already know the route but want Google to step in when there's traffic.
- jedberg 9y ago
  > Generally when I drive with Google Maps, I already know the route but want Google to step in when there's traffic. You should try Waze. I too mostly use Google to route me around traffic, but Waze is an order of magnitude better at it. It has more frequently updated traffic data and is willing to take you on side streets. For example the other day I was driving down a major road, and Google said to just stay on it, but Waze took me down a side street for two blocks and then back to the main road, saving me four minutes, which was 25% of the total trip time. Also, when making a long drive, Google chooses a route that is optimal right now for the entire route. Waze accounts for the fact that it will be an hour later when you get to the second half of your trip, and uses that to make better choices.
  - secfirstmd 9y ago
    Don't Google own Waze? I don't get why they don't integrate the data.
  - miah_ 9y ago
    Waze is pretty great but it has a habit of running you through hospital parking lots to save 2 minutes or turning multiple times to avoid a intersection that isn't really that busy. What I wish Waze would do is have a mode that allowed me to learn a route. Maps, and Waze both 'optimize' so much that its sometimes hard to learn a route from point a -> b because every time you go it sends you on different paths. Many of the path optimizations seem to save you _seconds_ and when I'm driving I don't care about seconds, I care about minutes in greater quantities than 10.
    - puzzle 9y ago
      If you run them side by side, you will often find that Google Maps does not try as hard as Waze to save seconds. It prefers routes that are easier to learn, as you yourself like them, with fewer turns (and thus fewer interruptions). It caters to the 90% of people like you that don't obsess about seconds. Of course, it also has get traffic into account. Perhaps, in your case, the intersection isn't that busy, but traffic information is noisy.
      - acdha 9y ago
        I think there must be a factor like local data quality: I stopped following Google Maps as closely because it does things like an unprotected left turn on a major arterial road to save 100 feet going to the next light.
        CamperBob2 9y ago
        I remember trying to use Google Maps in San Francisco at rush hour. In terms of utility, efficiency, and practicality, it was indistinguishable from some bus-riding programmer's idea of a practical joke. No, Google, I am not going to make a left turn here, because I have someplace I need to be by Wednesday.
- lucb1e 9y ago
  My experience with traffic rerouting is that you usually are 5% faster than just waiting. You're driving, which feels nice, but it's also stressful because you're already late and of course the country roads are now full of people routing around... Aside from major accidents, I think traffic info is quite overrated. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have in OSM, but it's just not something that fits into what OSM is. It's a whole separate service, even if such a service could be integrated with the third party apps that use OSM data.
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  Mapbox's routing API applies traffic data to an OSM base.
  - boxed 9y ago
    Is there a general purpose mapbox based iOS map app out there?
Avamander 9y ago
I just hate how hard it is to get a simple vector map based on OSM, after that it's really fine to use.
- aw3c2 9y ago
  Installing OSMAnd or Maps.me is not hard.
  - Avamander 9y ago
    Um, maybe everyone doesn't want to use that software?
    - lucb1e 9y ago
      You want to write your own routing software from scratch, or are you talking about using vector data for research purposes?
      - Avamander 9y ago
        It shouldn't really matter if I want to use it with some other application on Android or to test some routing libraries, the point is that it's not easy to get.
milcron 9y ago
What about OSMAnd for Android? https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/
- makomk 9y ago
  I've found OSMAnd quite buggy and temperamental, plus it heavily pushes you to the paid version if you want up to date maps (so you could effectively ending up paying a third party to access your own mapping work unreliably).
  - dTal 9y ago
    Although I've had similar experiences, have you tried it recently? It seems to be much better. And the F-Droid version is nag-free. I've not found a more flexible mapping program. Unusally for an OSM program, it even supports online tiles - I have mine configured with offline maps overlaid on Bing satellite imagery if data is available.
  - andrewshadura 9y ago
    That's not quite true. You pay a small amount once and you get it for life, and you can opt to support development and mappers by a really tiny amount (€1.20) monthly, but you don't have to.
  - jadavies 9y ago
    I use the paid for product but, from what I remember, you get the same maps with the free version. The difference between the two is that you're limited to 10 (?) maps download in the free version.
    - Vinnl 9y ago
      10 downloads through the app. You can download them yourself from their website and place them in the correct directory, and it will just work (and this is allowed and even mentioned somewhere).
    - makomk 9y ago
      They changed this sometime in the last few months. As well as reducing the limit to 7 map downloads total, the maps paid users have access to are now updated faster than the free ones.
lucb1e 9y ago
> Needless to say I quickly gave up on using OSM and turned back to Google Maps--and I'm their perfect use case, a skilled techie with a deep interest in using free software! I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom My mom got an iPhone gifted from my dad, so there's mistake number one (I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform), but for what it's worth, my non-technical girlfriend has no trouble with it. Then again, that was 2014ish, not sure what time you're talking about. > require downloading huge amounts of data and picking what maps you want ahead of time It's not easy to find, I agree, but you can use it without downloading a single map. If being online all the time floats your boat, you can do that (at least in Osmand, the de facto app for Android). > The UIs were universally terrible (at the time at least) OsmAnd invested a lot of time in this. I didn't mind the old UI that much and the new one has some things I don't like (but are probably easier for newbies), but it might be worth a try again. Especially if you live in Europe, and definitely if you live in the Netherlands or west Germany, the map data is much more complete than Google's on everything but business information.
- ben_w 9y ago
  > I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform Is ViewRanger of use? (Disclosure: I used to work there). It’s focused on outdoor pursuits such as hiking and biking rather than driving or public transit, but OSM is one of the available maps.
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    The use case would mainly be driving, but thanks for the tip! I hadn't heard of it yet.
- Accacin 9y ago
  I use Galileo, but it's the only one I've used on Android or iOS so I'm not sure how good it is but it works for me.
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!
wingworks 9y ago
I had the same experience a few years ago, in the end I stuck with Google Maps, with Maps.me as a backup. But ideally, I'd like mapbox to release a Google Maps like app, as their maps are just stunning compared to anything else that renders OSM data. (I havn't yet found any other company using mapbox data to create a useful map I could use, usually it's just built in maps like uber)
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
> I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom But why would your mum have heard of OSM and be trying to download it in the first place? She might well have heard of a third-party app - in certain countries and communities OSM-based apps are massive and have significant brand recognition - and download that. Or she might be using a name brand like Apple or Facebook or Garmin or whoever, all of whom use OSM under the hood. OSM isn't a consumer-facing brand and doesn't aim to be.

by acabal 9y ago

leokennis 9y ago

Exactly. If the alternative is Google Maps (or even Apple Maps), it’s not good enough to make me pay $5 to download a map of 1 country and forcing me to keep 500mb of data on my device permanently.

striking 9y ago

Maps.me is pretty killer, though. The only issue I see with OSM is lack of traffic data. Generally when I drive with Google Maps, I already know the route but want Google to step in when there's traffic.

jedberg 9y ago
> Generally when I drive with Google Maps, I already know the route but want Google to step in when there's traffic. You should try Waze. I too mostly use Google to route me around traffic, but Waze is an order of magnitude better at it. It has more frequently updated traffic data and is willing to take you on side streets. For example the other day I was driving down a major road, and Google said to just stay on it, but Waze took me down a side street for two blocks and then back to the main road, saving me four minutes, which was 25% of the total trip time. Also, when making a long drive, Google chooses a route that is optimal right now for the entire route. Waze accounts for the fact that it will be an hour later when you get to the second half of your trip, and uses that to make better choices.
- secfirstmd 9y ago
  Don't Google own Waze? I don't get why they don't integrate the data.
- miah_ 9y ago
  Waze is pretty great but it has a habit of running you through hospital parking lots to save 2 minutes or turning multiple times to avoid a intersection that isn't really that busy. What I wish Waze would do is have a mode that allowed me to learn a route. Maps, and Waze both 'optimize' so much that its sometimes hard to learn a route from point a -> b because every time you go it sends you on different paths. Many of the path optimizations seem to save you _seconds_ and when I'm driving I don't care about seconds, I care about minutes in greater quantities than 10.
  - puzzle 9y ago
    If you run them side by side, you will often find that Google Maps does not try as hard as Waze to save seconds. It prefers routes that are easier to learn, as you yourself like them, with fewer turns (and thus fewer interruptions). It caters to the 90% of people like you that don't obsess about seconds. Of course, it also has get traffic into account. Perhaps, in your case, the intersection isn't that busy, but traffic information is noisy.
    - acdha 9y ago
      I think there must be a factor like local data quality: I stopped following Google Maps as closely because it does things like an unprotected left turn on a major arterial road to save 100 feet going to the next light.
      - CamperBob2 9y ago
        I remember trying to use Google Maps in San Francisco at rush hour. In terms of utility, efficiency, and practicality, it was indistinguishable from some bus-riding programmer's idea of a practical joke. No, Google, I am not going to make a left turn here, because I have someplace I need to be by Wednesday.
lucb1e 9y ago
My experience with traffic rerouting is that you usually are 5% faster than just waiting. You're driving, which feels nice, but it's also stressful because you're already late and of course the country roads are now full of people routing around... Aside from major accidents, I think traffic info is quite overrated. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have in OSM, but it's just not something that fits into what OSM is. It's a whole separate service, even if such a service could be integrated with the third party apps that use OSM data.
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Mapbox's routing API applies traffic data to an OSM base.
- boxed 9y ago
  Is there a general purpose mapbox based iOS map app out there?

Avamander 9y ago

I just hate how hard it is to get a simple vector map based on OSM, after that it's really fine to use.

aw3c2 9y ago
Installing OSMAnd or Maps.me is not hard.
- Avamander 9y ago
  Um, maybe everyone doesn't want to use that software?
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    You want to write your own routing software from scratch, or are you talking about using vector data for research purposes?
    - Avamander 9y ago
      It shouldn't really matter if I want to use it with some other application on Android or to test some routing libraries, the point is that it's not easy to get.

milcron 9y ago

What about OSMAnd for Android? https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/

makomk 9y ago
I've found OSMAnd quite buggy and temperamental, plus it heavily pushes you to the paid version if you want up to date maps (so you could effectively ending up paying a third party to access your own mapping work unreliably).
- dTal 9y ago
  Although I've had similar experiences, have you tried it recently? It seems to be much better. And the F-Droid version is nag-free. I've not found a more flexible mapping program. Unusally for an OSM program, it even supports online tiles - I have mine configured with offline maps overlaid on Bing satellite imagery if data is available.
- andrewshadura 9y ago
  That's not quite true. You pay a small amount once and you get it for life, and you can opt to support development and mappers by a really tiny amount (€1.20) monthly, but you don't have to.
- jadavies 9y ago
  I use the paid for product but, from what I remember, you get the same maps with the free version. The difference between the two is that you're limited to 10 (?) maps download in the free version.
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    10 downloads through the app. You can download them yourself from their website and place them in the correct directory, and it will just work (and this is allowed and even mentioned somewhere).
  - makomk 9y ago
    They changed this sometime in the last few months. As well as reducing the limit to 7 map downloads total, the maps paid users have access to are now updated faster than the free ones.

lucb1e 9y ago

> Needless to say I quickly gave up on using OSM and turned back to Google Maps--and I'm their perfect use case, a skilled techie with a deep interest in using free software! I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom My mom got an iPhone gifted from my dad, so there's mistake number one (I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform), but for what it's worth, my non-technical girlfriend has no trouble with it. Then again, that was 2014ish, not sure what time you're talking about. > require downloading huge amounts of data and picking what maps you want ahead of time It's not easy to find, I agree, but you can use it without downloading a single map. If being online all the time floats your boat, you can do that (at least in Osmand, the de facto app for Android). > The UIs were universally terrible (at the time at least) OsmAnd invested a lot of time in this. I didn't mind the old UI that much and the new one has some things I don't like (but are probably easier for newbies), but it might be worth a try again. Especially if you live in Europe, and definitely if you live in the Netherlands or west Germany, the map data is much more complete than Google's on everything but business information.

ben_w 9y ago
> I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform Is ViewRanger of use? (Disclosure: I used to work there). It’s focused on outdoor pursuits such as hiking and biking rather than driving or public transit, but OSM is one of the available maps.
- lucb1e 9y ago
  The use case would mainly be driving, but thanks for the tip! I hadn't heard of it yet.
Accacin 9y ago
I use Galileo, but it's the only one I've used on Android or iOS so I'm not sure how good it is but it works for me.
- lucb1e 9y ago
  Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!

wingworks 9y ago

I had the same experience a few years ago, in the end I stuck with Google Maps, with Maps.me as a backup. But ideally, I'd like mapbox to release a Google Maps like app, as their maps are just stunning compared to anything else that renders OSM data. (I havn't yet found any other company using mapbox data to create a useful map I could use, usually it's just built in maps like uber)

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago

> I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom But why would your mum have heard of OSM and be trying to download it in the first place? She might well have heard of a third-party app - in certain countries and communities OSM-based apps are massive and have significant brand recognition - and download that. Or she might be using a name brand like Apple or Facebook or Garmin or whoever, all of whom use OSM under the hood. OSM isn't a consumer-facing brand and doesn't aim to be.