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You're probably going to get downvoted because "both sides are the same" but they really aren't. Only one party is doing this.

microcolonel 9y ago
> You're probably going to get downvoted because "both sides are the same" but they really aren't. Only one party is doing this. This is the height of arrogance. Either major party can be characterized as the reigning party of broken promises and slime. Both of them will represent their own policies as of six years prior as reprehensible when the opposing party runs on those same policies; and both will use whatever power the electorate gives them to enrich themselves (or at least their own cause), if that is an option.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  You don't have to look at how the parties represent themselves or each other. You just have to look at their actions. Neither party is perfect, of course, but if you can look at the world today and claim "both sides" are equally at fault you're.... ...well, you're probably a Republican.
- criley2 9y ago
  False equivalence is a powerful form of propaganda in heavy use today. It is our duty to be objective and rational, and that requires us to challenge and reject "false equivalence" arguments whether it's Putin, or Assad, or Duerte, or Erdogan rationalizing their despotic government or US Republicans rationalizing their unprecedented and unequal malpractice in American government. I feel that anyone who dares suggest that "both parties are the same" is so fundamentally ignorant that they're suffering from Dunning Kruger / illusory knowledge. One only needs to read about "starving the beast" (a nefarious legislative plan of cutting taxes and not spending, to intentionally manufacture budget crises surrounding debt, to cut social welfare programs) or the Project for a New American Century (Republican PAC in 1999 which planned the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Iran and Syria in the early 90's before GWB re-invaded the middle east -- that list sound familiar?) to understand how the modern assault on Liberal Democratic order in the West was planned and executed. I'm just so tired of false equivalence.
  - SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
    > "a nefarious legislative plan of cutting taxes and not spending, to intentionally manufacture budget crises surrounding debt, to cut social welfare programs" That's an odd thing to cite as it really isn't a form of corruption. A limited federal government is a core pillar of conservatism and the republican party. That "nefarious" plan is the what they (and many right-voters) consider the most viable strategy for reducing the size and scope of the federal government. I think you'll find more instances of corruption/pandering/populism on the right, in the places where they are expanding the federal government. Its a bit like calling democrats corrupt because they have a "nefarious" plans to confiscate more of your money (in the form of taxes) to pay for federal programs. I find this is the way many of the back-n-forths go in the "party x is more corrupt" game. <insert party here> is so demonized in the minds of their opponents, literally acting in accordance with their political philosophy appears like a form of corruption. I guess the "they want to kill your babies!" style rhetoric actually works.
- VVyattPrentice 9y ago
  The fallacy you are absokutely running with here is "false equivalence." Yes the Democrat party is slimy self-serving punters. But they're not nearly as good at it as the R's. Even acceptingthere isn't a difference in kind (I happen to think there is) but surely you would admit there is a difference in degree.
boomboomsubban 9y ago
When exactly have the Democrats worked to stop the ongoing media concentration?
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  Yeah! Democrats! What have they ever done for us? Except for putting the internet common carrier regulations in place in the first place for Pai to tear down. Or making antitrust law reform a core plank in the party platform. Just for a couple of examples. > Over the last thirty years, courts and permissive regulators have allowed large companies to get larger, resulting in higher prices and limited consumer choice in daily expenses such as travel, cable, and food and beverages. And because concentrated market power leads to concentrated political power, these companies deploy armies of lobbyists to increase their stranglehold on Washington. https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017/07/A-Better-Deal-on-Competition-and-Costs-1.pdf https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017/07/A-Bet...
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    >Democrats! What have they ever done for us? Except for putting the internet common carrier regulations in place in the first place for Pai to tear down. This is unrelated to the concentration of media. Plus, if they cared about that, they should have passed the law ensuring it when it hit the floor in 2009. You realize that quote basically says "we've helped this happen for the past thirty years, but we've changed now!"
    - outsidetheparty 9y ago
      You may well be right that it's too little too late. But the choice is between "we've changed", or "We've helped this happen for the past thirty years, and now we're gonna triple down, baby".
      - boomboomsubban 9y ago
        They've already shown the change to be a lie by opposing candidates with new ideas in primaries.

microcolonel 9y ago

> You're probably going to get downvoted because "both sides are the same" but they really aren't. Only one party is doing this. This is the height of arrogance. Either major party can be characterized as the reigning party of broken promises and slime. Both of them will represent their own policies as of six years prior as reprehensible when the opposing party runs on those same policies; and both will use whatever power the electorate gives them to enrich themselves (or at least their own cause), if that is an option.

outsidetheparty 9y ago
You don't have to look at how the parties represent themselves or each other. You just have to look at their actions. Neither party is perfect, of course, but if you can look at the world today and claim "both sides" are equally at fault you're.... ...well, you're probably a Republican.
criley2 9y ago
False equivalence is a powerful form of propaganda in heavy use today. It is our duty to be objective and rational, and that requires us to challenge and reject "false equivalence" arguments whether it's Putin, or Assad, or Duerte, or Erdogan rationalizing their despotic government or US Republicans rationalizing their unprecedented and unequal malpractice in American government. I feel that anyone who dares suggest that "both parties are the same" is so fundamentally ignorant that they're suffering from Dunning Kruger / illusory knowledge. One only needs to read about "starving the beast" (a nefarious legislative plan of cutting taxes and not spending, to intentionally manufacture budget crises surrounding debt, to cut social welfare programs) or the Project for a New American Century (Republican PAC in 1999 which planned the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Iran and Syria in the early 90's before GWB re-invaded the middle east -- that list sound familiar?) to understand how the modern assault on Liberal Democratic order in the West was planned and executed. I'm just so tired of false equivalence.
- SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
  > "a nefarious legislative plan of cutting taxes and not spending, to intentionally manufacture budget crises surrounding debt, to cut social welfare programs" That's an odd thing to cite as it really isn't a form of corruption. A limited federal government is a core pillar of conservatism and the republican party. That "nefarious" plan is the what they (and many right-voters) consider the most viable strategy for reducing the size and scope of the federal government. I think you'll find more instances of corruption/pandering/populism on the right, in the places where they are expanding the federal government. Its a bit like calling democrats corrupt because they have a "nefarious" plans to confiscate more of your money (in the form of taxes) to pay for federal programs. I find this is the way many of the back-n-forths go in the "party x is more corrupt" game. <insert party here> is so demonized in the minds of their opponents, literally acting in accordance with their political philosophy appears like a form of corruption. I guess the "they want to kill your babies!" style rhetoric actually works.
VVyattPrentice 9y ago
The fallacy you are absokutely running with here is "false equivalence." Yes the Democrat party is slimy self-serving punters. But they're not nearly as good at it as the R's. Even acceptingthere isn't a difference in kind (I happen to think there is) but surely you would admit there is a difference in degree.

boomboomsubban 9y ago

When exactly have the Democrats worked to stop the ongoing media concentration?

outsidetheparty 9y ago
Yeah! Democrats! What have they ever done for us? Except for putting the internet common carrier regulations in place in the first place for Pai to tear down. Or making antitrust law reform a core plank in the party platform. Just for a couple of examples. > Over the last thirty years, courts and permissive regulators have allowed large companies to get larger, resulting in higher prices and limited consumer choice in daily expenses such as travel, cable, and food and beverages. And because concentrated market power leads to concentrated political power, these companies deploy armies of lobbyists to increase their stranglehold on Washington. https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017/07/A-Better-Deal-on-Competition-and-Costs-1.pdf https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017/07/A-Bet...
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  >Democrats! What have they ever done for us? Except for putting the internet common carrier regulations in place in the first place for Pai to tear down. This is unrelated to the concentration of media. Plus, if they cared about that, they should have passed the law ensuring it when it hit the floor in 2009. You realize that quote basically says "we've helped this happen for the past thirty years, but we've changed now!"
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    You may well be right that it's too little too late. But the choice is between "we've changed", or "We've helped this happen for the past thirty years, and now we're gonna triple down, baby".
    - boomboomsubban 9y ago
      They've already shown the change to be a lie by opposing candidates with new ideas in primaries.