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SCHUFA is demanding a passport copy from EU citizens to obtain the annual unpaid data overview report. A citizen of an EU country residing in Germany is under n

SCHUFA is demanding a passport copy from EU citizens to obtain the annual unpaid data overview report. A citizen of an EU country residing in Germany is under no obligation to hold a passport. I don't understand how until now no one torn the SCHUFA credit bureau into pieces over it. https://i.imgur.com/nEZRJDv.png https://i.imgur.com/nEZRJDv.png

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lispm 9y ago
> A citizen of an EU country residing in Germany is under no obligation to hold a passport. Any EU citizen needs a passport or equivalent in Germany. One needs it already when entering Germany. Though you don't need to carry it all time with you. But you need to have one.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  A citizen of EU country has no obligation to hold a passport while in another EU country in case their country issues other document confirming both identity and nationality of a citizen e.g. a national ID.
  - TomK32 9y ago
    lipsm wrote "passport or equivalent" and you are jumping to "passport". Here's the law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/freiz_gg_eu_2004/__8.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/freiz_gg_eu_2004/__8.html EU citizens in Germany have to carry a passport or equivalent.
    - expertentipp 9y ago
      > EU citizens in Germany have to carry a passport or equivalent. ..and no one has the right to demand explicitly passport if one is able to produce an equivalent and valid document e.g. national ID.
  - lispm 9y ago
    Details: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__3.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__3.html
- ccozan 9y ago
  No, by law you are required to have a proper ID issued by an EU country. No passport required, but it might be useful, since many online services require a passport, for example activating a SIM card.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    > many online services require a passport This is notorious and infuriating violation by many service providers in Germany.
    - chopin 9y ago
      Which ones? I never came across any. They may require a "Personalausweis" (like banks) but not a passport (which is a different thing). An EU citizen can come well by without ever needing one, as he can travel the EU by personal id alone. I only need a passport for international travel. And that makes sense. You can be denied a passport, but not a personal id.
      - socksy 9y ago
        I have definitely experienced the case multiple times online where I have been denied something without a German Personalausweis or a passport. In my case, as a UK citizen I don't have a national ID card, so Passport must do, but the option is never "generic ID card" vs passport, but instead the German Personalausweis. Schufa is guilty of this, and iirc so is ImmoScout.
  - TomK32 9y ago
    Well, the only document internationally recognized are passports. Not every country has identity cards like the german Personalausweis, let alone there being an international standard for them like there are for the passports. The passport is simply the international baseline.
    - expertentipp 9y ago
      no
- rasz 9y ago
  >passport or equivalent there is a big difference between passport and normal ID, EU citizens dont need passports.
TomK32 9y ago
You have to identify youself somehow. I mean this is Germany, not the UK where you collect utility bills to justify your existence /s. In Germany as German you are obliged to have a valid identification document and as EU citizen just the same in case you are being asked for it. Wikipedia hast the links to the relevant laws https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht#Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht#Deutschland
- expertentipp 9y ago
  Why you're immediately teasing UK? They are exception in this regard. I'm talking about national IDs which most other EU (all but UK?) countries are issuing. Yet SCHUFA clearly demands passport in their instructions. In 6 different languages, 4 of which are official languages of the EU.
  - TomK32 9y ago
    Because passports are the international standard, issued under international guidelines while identity cards aren't.
    - hocuspocus 9y ago
      The international standard is completely irrelevant here. The parent poster specifically mentioned the case of EU citizens. As a EU citizen you can settle in Germany without owning a passport. It's not up to private companies to redefine what consists in a recognized official form of identification.
    - germanier 9y ago
      EU national identity cards are issues under EU guidelines and recognized by the authorities of all member states.
  - guitarbill 9y ago
    Maybe because they opted to scrap ID cards for stupid, vague reasons such as "reducing bureaucracy" and "civil liberties". Meanwhile, the de-facto method of ID is a driving license (which is useless for travel), or the national insurance number (similar to a social security number in the US) + other stupid forms of "ID" such as utility bills are used instead ubiquitously. The problem with the NIN (like the SSN) is that it is assigned once per person, cannot be changed, has severe consequences if stolen for identity theft reasons, and, oh yeah, it isn't identification because it has no picture, yet somehow every terrible company or bank needs it. Utility bills are even easier to fake or procure. The farcical reason to scrap them comes from a government who's police force holds a large percentage of their population's faces - who are innocent - in a huge database and refuses to delete them. So yeah, it's dumb on all levels. Tease away at those muppets. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa-may-scrapping-id-cards https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa-may...
thesimon 9y ago
They say that, but there is really no need. Just send them a letter with your name, DoB and address and request the information. They'll process it just fine, they actually have to because the law doesn't require a passport for identification. I guess it is just a dark pattern to sell their "premium" products.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  Show me a thing on their website which is not a dark pattern tricking users into their scammy pseudo-products.

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lispm 9y ago

> A citizen of an EU country residing in Germany is under no obligation to hold a passport. Any EU citizen needs a passport or equivalent in Germany. One needs it already when entering Germany. Though you don't need to carry it all time with you. But you need to have one.

expertentipp 9y ago
A citizen of EU country has no obligation to hold a passport while in another EU country in case their country issues other document confirming both identity and nationality of a citizen e.g. a national ID.
- TomK32 9y ago
  lipsm wrote "passport or equivalent" and you are jumping to "passport". Here's the law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/freiz_gg_eu_2004/__8.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/freiz_gg_eu_2004/__8.html EU citizens in Germany have to carry a passport or equivalent.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    > EU citizens in Germany have to carry a passport or equivalent. ..and no one has the right to demand explicitly passport if one is able to produce an equivalent and valid document e.g. national ID.
- lispm 9y ago
  Details: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__3.html http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufenthv/__3.html
ccozan 9y ago
No, by law you are required to have a proper ID issued by an EU country. No passport required, but it might be useful, since many online services require a passport, for example activating a SIM card.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  > many online services require a passport This is notorious and infuriating violation by many service providers in Germany.
  - chopin 9y ago
    Which ones? I never came across any. They may require a "Personalausweis" (like banks) but not a passport (which is a different thing). An EU citizen can come well by without ever needing one, as he can travel the EU by personal id alone. I only need a passport for international travel. And that makes sense. You can be denied a passport, but not a personal id.
    - socksy 9y ago
      I have definitely experienced the case multiple times online where I have been denied something without a German Personalausweis or a passport. In my case, as a UK citizen I don't have a national ID card, so Passport must do, but the option is never "generic ID card" vs passport, but instead the German Personalausweis. Schufa is guilty of this, and iirc so is ImmoScout.
- TomK32 9y ago
  Well, the only document internationally recognized are passports. Not every country has identity cards like the german Personalausweis, let alone there being an international standard for them like there are for the passports. The passport is simply the international baseline.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    no
rasz 9y ago
>passport or equivalent there is a big difference between passport and normal ID, EU citizens dont need passports.

TomK32 9y ago

You have to identify youself somehow. I mean this is Germany, not the UK where you collect utility bills to justify your existence /s. In Germany as German you are obliged to have a valid identification document and as EU citizen just the same in case you are being asked for it. Wikipedia hast the links to the relevant laws https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht#Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht#Deutschland

expertentipp 9y ago
Why you're immediately teasing UK? They are exception in this regard. I'm talking about national IDs which most other EU (all but UK?) countries are issuing. Yet SCHUFA clearly demands passport in their instructions. In 6 different languages, 4 of which are official languages of the EU.
- TomK32 9y ago
  Because passports are the international standard, issued under international guidelines while identity cards aren't.
  - hocuspocus 9y ago
    The international standard is completely irrelevant here. The parent poster specifically mentioned the case of EU citizens. As a EU citizen you can settle in Germany without owning a passport. It's not up to private companies to redefine what consists in a recognized official form of identification.
  - germanier 9y ago
    EU national identity cards are issues under EU guidelines and recognized by the authorities of all member states.
- guitarbill 9y ago
  Maybe because they opted to scrap ID cards for stupid, vague reasons such as "reducing bureaucracy" and "civil liberties". Meanwhile, the de-facto method of ID is a driving license (which is useless for travel), or the national insurance number (similar to a social security number in the US) + other stupid forms of "ID" such as utility bills are used instead ubiquitously. The problem with the NIN (like the SSN) is that it is assigned once per person, cannot be changed, has severe consequences if stolen for identity theft reasons, and, oh yeah, it isn't identification because it has no picture, yet somehow every terrible company or bank needs it. Utility bills are even easier to fake or procure. The farcical reason to scrap them comes from a government who's police force holds a large percentage of their population's faces - who are innocent - in a huge database and refuses to delete them. So yeah, it's dumb on all levels. Tease away at those muppets. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa-may-scrapping-id-cards https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/27/theresa-may...

thesimon 9y ago

They say that, but there is really no need. Just send them a letter with your name, DoB and address and request the information. They'll process it just fine, they actually have to because the law doesn't require a passport for identification. I guess it is just a dark pattern to sell their "premium" products.

expertentipp 9y ago
Show me a thing on their website which is not a dark pattern tricking users into their scammy pseudo-products.