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I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of runni

I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of running a chat agent on our website and within our app, we have never had anything even close to this. Frankly, seeing the interactions on that blog post was like opening a door into some sort of hell hole. Maybe I lead some sort of cloistered life online, but I don't think I have ever seen anything like it. And yes, I am male and my co-founder is female, and all of our team use our own profile pics within our chat widget. I will never tolerate even a paying customer treating any of my team with anything but courtesy and respect.

jpalomaki 9y ago
Some time ago there was a write up about a very similar problem, in B2B context. It was not about chat, but about email. The experience was quite similar as described in this article. [1] [1] https://twitter.com/i/moments/839950218099576832 https://twitter.com/i/moments/839950218099576832
- woodrowbarlow 9y ago
  do you have a non-twitter link? thank you.
  - philipodonnell 9y ago
    Wow, twitter is a really inferior way of telling a story like that.
    - brobert 9y ago
      threadreaderapp dot com is a great way to "collect"/"rollup" tweets into a single page/long form for reading. Unfortunately, it doesn't support twitter moments yet (you have to copy the original tweet url) and, really, REALLY unfortunately, doesn't support this particular "old" tweet because the twitter API doesn't allow fetching tweets more than a few months old. :/
eevilspock 9y ago
If by "cloistered" you mean "male" (and also "white") then, yes, I'm sorry to say that you do. Just ask your female co-founder about her general experience online. Even regarding B2B versus B2C, ask her about the subtle if not overt sexism she experiences in the business world. If only there were a way to see the gender and color breakdown of the downvotes I get.
draw_down 9y ago
I work for a B2B saas company. All our support people use an alias when interacting with customers. Business owners are the same people in the general population and can be just as threatening and crazy. Trust me, they are not exempt from being threatening and crazy.
ericabiz 9y ago
I am female, and have run my own B2B SaaS as well as currently managing chat (as part of marketing) for another B2B SaaS. I have seen all sorts of comments like the ones mentioned in the article, and I hate to say it, but many of them came after we got profiled in places like Hacker News (and other tech websites, too, to be fair.) One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I put my own face as an avatar on my current client's chat without thinking twice. Less than 24 hours later, my first interaction on the chat was harassment. Their product is an enterprise B2B SaaS.
- vgf 9y ago
  > One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I'm sorry, but I literally laughed out loud reading that one. It was gross to have to do natural language processing plus arithmetics? #metoo I hate it when people force me to do arithmetics early in the morning. So gross! Seriously though, what I do hate is when money-hungry people hijack worthwhile movements for their own monetary gain.
  - dang 9y ago
    Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. Not only have you broken this site guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." ... you've also been just plain rude. (Edit: and by adding the "money-hungry" slur, crossing into bannable incivility.) Please don't do these things on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - vgf 9y ago
      > Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. That logic is pretty amazing. It's a brand new world.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
The problem runs deeper than that. I'm a woman and have participated on HN for about 8.5 years. HN is one of the most civilized environments I have participated in. I still have men politely email me to essentially chat me up and otherwise don't want to engage me at all. I recently offered to let someone email me to discuss their issue. They were all enthused. We never discussed their issue. They basically wanted to know when I might come visit their country. I cut them off and let them know they could write back if they had any actual questions about [issue]. I never heard back. There is a very short list of men who will talk to me like a human being. But about 99% of men have only one reason they would ever talk to me and that reason is to treat me like a talking fleshlight. It's very frustrating and I'm getting to the point of starting to be pretty mad about the whole thing. Then when I comment on my gender being a factor contributing to my intractable poverty, inevitably someone is a jerk about that and acts like I am crazy.
- YetAnotherNick 9y ago
  > about 99% of men have only one reason You lost me on this.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Can_Not 9y ago
    There is a loud minority of men who seek out opportunities and jump at any opportunity to sexually harass a woman. It's not uncommon that women often encounter these males in ridiculous volumns. Some women actually get such a volumn of sexist males that it's difficult to form regular relationships with members of the male community who are not overtly sexist. Please don't let this somewhat offensive exaggeration make you dismiss the daily struggles women can have with never ending systematic sexism.
therealdrag0 9y ago
> we have never had anything even close to this Have you confirmed this with your cofounder?
- craffert 9y ago
  The other kind of problem women on the internet face is people assuming they haven't done obvious information gathering.

jpalomaki 9y ago

Some time ago there was a write up about a very similar problem, in B2B context. It was not about chat, but about email. The experience was quite similar as described in this article. [1] [1] https://twitter.com/i/moments/839950218099576832 https://twitter.com/i/moments/839950218099576832

woodrowbarlow 9y ago
do you have a non-twitter link? thank you.
- philipodonnell 9y ago
  Wow, twitter is a really inferior way of telling a story like that.
  - brobert 9y ago
    threadreaderapp dot com is a great way to "collect"/"rollup" tweets into a single page/long form for reading. Unfortunately, it doesn't support twitter moments yet (you have to copy the original tweet url) and, really, REALLY unfortunately, doesn't support this particular "old" tweet because the twitter API doesn't allow fetching tweets more than a few months old. :/

eevilspock 9y ago

If by "cloistered" you mean "male" (and also "white") then, yes, I'm sorry to say that you do. Just ask your female co-founder about her general experience online. Even regarding B2B versus B2C, ask her about the subtle if not overt sexism she experiences in the business world. If only there were a way to see the gender and color breakdown of the downvotes I get.

draw_down 9y ago

I work for a B2B saas company. All our support people use an alias when interacting with customers. Business owners are the same people in the general population and can be just as threatening and crazy. Trust me, they are not exempt from being threatening and crazy.

ericabiz 9y ago

I am female, and have run my own B2B SaaS as well as currently managing chat (as part of marketing) for another B2B SaaS. I have seen all sorts of comments like the ones mentioned in the article, and I hate to say it, but many of them came after we got profiled in places like Hacker News (and other tech websites, too, to be fair.) One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I put my own face as an avatar on my current client's chat without thinking twice. Less than 24 hours later, my first interaction on the chat was harassment. Their product is an enterprise B2B SaaS.

vgf 9y ago
> One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I'm sorry, but I literally laughed out loud reading that one. It was gross to have to do natural language processing plus arithmetics? #metoo I hate it when people force me to do arithmetics early in the morning. So gross! Seriously though, what I do hate is when money-hungry people hijack worthwhile movements for their own monetary gain.
- dang 9y ago
  Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. Not only have you broken this site guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." ... you've also been just plain rude. (Edit: and by adding the "money-hungry" slur, crossing into bannable incivility.) Please don't do these things on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - vgf 9y ago
    > Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. That logic is pretty amazing. It's a brand new world.

DoreenMichele 9y ago

The problem runs deeper than that. I'm a woman and have participated on HN for about 8.5 years. HN is one of the most civilized environments I have participated in. I still have men politely email me to essentially chat me up and otherwise don't want to engage me at all. I recently offered to let someone email me to discuss their issue. They were all enthused. We never discussed their issue. They basically wanted to know when I might come visit their country. I cut them off and let them know they could write back if they had any actual questions about [issue]. I never heard back. There is a very short list of men who will talk to me like a human being. But about 99% of men have only one reason they would ever talk to me and that reason is to treat me like a talking fleshlight. It's very frustrating and I'm getting to the point of starting to be pretty mad about the whole thing. Then when I comment on my gender being a factor contributing to my intractable poverty, inevitably someone is a jerk about that and acts like I am crazy.

YetAnotherNick 9y ago
> about 99% of men have only one reason You lost me on this.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Can_Not 9y ago
  There is a loud minority of men who seek out opportunities and jump at any opportunity to sexually harass a woman. It's not uncommon that women often encounter these males in ridiculous volumns. Some women actually get such a volumn of sexist males that it's difficult to form regular relationships with members of the male community who are not overtly sexist. Please don't let this somewhat offensive exaggeration make you dismiss the daily struggles women can have with never ending systematic sexism.

therealdrag0 9y ago

> we have never had anything even close to this Have you confirmed this with your cofounder?

craffert 9y ago
The other kind of problem women on the internet face is people assuming they haven't done obvious information gathering.