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I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. 1. 90% of the answers in this thread are bad advice. Some of i

I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. 1. 90% of the answers in this thread are bad advice. Some of it really bad. A lot of it just misleading, bogus or exaggerated (on HN, it's bad form to criticize others, but when it comes to life-altering advice such as here, I can't let it stand). 2. It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors. 3. The best lawyer site I have ever seen is http://usvisanews.com http://usvisanews.com. Read this weekly for 6 months, then you'll start having an idea of how it works A few facts: a. anybody can incorporate a US corporation. You don't even have to set foot in the US, by the way, to do so. b. the main issue is living in the US while having some kind of activity for a company. It's usually defined as work, and that's when you must be very careful and have the right status.

TotlolRon 16y ago
> I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. > It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors. A similar number of visa types over similar number of years and I would go a step further and say that there is no formal solution to your problem. The US immigration system can't handle YC type rhythm and structures. You'll have to assume you have two operations to run - your startup and your status. You'll have to get knowledgeable and creative in both. Also, as you will work under the assumption that your start-up may fail, you should also work under the assumption that your status will fail and you will have to go back to your home country. Succeeding in both operations is possible, but very hard. Me think the immigration operation is harder.... Good luck.
- sprovoost 16y ago
  I would like to focus on the first 89 days (if I make it to YC 2011 winter). I don't mind running a "status" operation during those initial three months. I can also live with the possibility that I will have to run my company from The Netherlands for a while (months, years, forever) after that. What I can't live with is the chance of accidentally messing with immigration law during those three months. The big question then is: does Y combinator fall under the restrictions of the Visa Waiver Program? I've heard people claim the whole Y-Combinator program can be seen as "seeking investment", but there's also a coding aspect to it. My plan would be to work as a single founder, doing part of the work myself and hiring others outside the USA through Elance.
  - sprovoost 16y ago
    I should mention that the Visa Waiver Program seems to me the only possible option for those first three months, because there is only 1 month between being accepted into the program and moving to Silicon Valley. Other visa options seem to have total processing times in the order of months or worse and no guarantees. So if it can't be legally done under that program, it can't be legally done period, as far as I understand. Also, let's imagine this scenario: 1 - I get accepted into the program 2 - I book a ticket and fly to the USA 3 - I explain the immigration officer in detail what my plan is (I know, they might not even let me) 4 - The immigration officer is "convinced" and lets me into the country* 5 - a while (or even a decade) later it turns out to be illegal. Does that make me liable even though the immigration official made a mistake in approving my visit? Can I even record the conversation for legal purposes? My guess is that immigrant/visitor rights are fairly minimal... * = in my deal with Y-Combinator I would have to account for the possibility of being denied access; either by reversing the investment or by making do with virtual presence.
dotBen 16y ago
I just want to second what alain is saying here. I'm a foreign national working in US on a visa and I've spent a ton of time and money on immigration law. There is some outright CRAP advice in this thread that I know for a fact is BS. Even if you are doing something that is unlikely to get caught at the time, if you ever apply for a green card they will investigate the entire history of your activity in the US and this is when problems can occur. (problems will result in almost certain deportation and being barred from entering US again) I have also heard of a VC/investor passing information to the DHS about a startup founder who pitched him who was working illegally - think about that for a moment. (I've got nothing against him, the investor was totally in his right to do so - plus no one is going to fund a company that has founders working outside the law anyway). PLEASE get legal advice, and from someone who you know has already helped startup founders. Many lawyers don't understand the landscape we are in.
- gojomo 16y ago
  ...a VC/investor passing information to the DHS about a startup founder who pitched him who was working illegally... ...was totally in his right to do so... Huh? From the limited details provided, that sounds highly unethical, unless the founder was endangering others by his presence. A frank discussion with potential investors has to include legal risks, including transgressions-so-far that could, if uncorrectable, cause problems. If the investor takes it upon themselves to report people pitching to immigration (or tax or copyright or employment) authorities, then necessary conversations can't happen. It'd be like pitching an investor and then having them say: "I like what you're doing, and in fact have some investments in a related space. But it sounds like you might not be paying everyone proper overtime, and some of your contractors should probably be reclassified as employees. I've informed my friends at the IRS and EDD. Have a nice day!"
  - dotBen 16y ago
    It'd be like pitching an investor and then having them say: "I like what you're doing ... But it sounds like you might not be paying everyone proper overtime, and some of your contractors should probably be reclassified as employees." For a start, it's nothing like that and I think you're being a bit extreme with your counter example. Your example includes 'probably', ie subjective information on the part of the VC. I my original example it's likely that the founder out-right admitted his out-of-status. I don't know the back-story and I only heard it as secondary info (ie not from either party involved) but knowing the SEC and other regulations VCs are under they may well be legally bound to report this and other information. A closer to home example: I know my CPA is legally bound to inform the IRS and DHS of any issues with my immigration status, insider trading on my investments and any tax irregularities. To that end, keep in mind it is also hard to pay tax on income if you are working illegally and not get found out. And if you don't pay tax...
iamjustlooking 16y ago
I sincerely hope that he doesn't follow any advice in this thread except for getting a lawyer because if he willy nilly applies for stupid things he is not likely to succeed in getting (Just apply for a GC? Come on what dream world are some HN'ers living in?) it will severely complicate any future correct application.
jayliew 16y ago
Yup, agreed with Alain that there's so much legally correct, but also legally wrong statements on this thread. This immigration question depends on like a million factors. To name a few, * which country you are a citizen of makes a HUGE difference - every country has a different relationship with the US. Some citizens walk in and out freely and do almost anything they want, while others can't even get their foot in the door * what stage/maturity of your startup is in. If you're already proving that you have profits, can hire US citizens, have raised $, you're going to look a lot better than having nothing but an idea (again, just a broad generalization) * Immigration fraud is a HUGE no-no. If you get caught, they might not ever let you in again. Ever. Depending on severity * A million other tactics. I'm not a lawyer. But I know this is a question that needs an answer that is more than just cookie-cutter advice (if you're serious about your intentions). Talk to a lawyer. Many lawyers. Yes, it sucks and all this is very anti- to the idea that America is the land of opportunity :( Good luck and wish you guys all the best. Do share what worked and what didn't with your fellow immigrant entrepreneurs
- gorbachev 16y ago
  "which country you are a citizen of makes a HUGE difference" While it makes a big difference in getting into the US (legally) and acquiring whatever visa you need, it makes no difference whatsoever with regards to requirements to work legally within US. You have to have legal authorization to work in the US (i.e. either being a citizen, permanent resident or a temporary resident) regardless of your citizenship.

TotlolRon 16y ago

> I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. > It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors. A similar number of visa types over similar number of years and I would go a step further and say that there is no formal solution to your problem. The US immigration system can't handle YC type rhythm and structures. You'll have to assume you have two operations to run - your startup and your status. You'll have to get knowledgeable and creative in both. Also, as you will work under the assumption that your start-up may fail, you should also work under the assumption that your status will fail and you will have to go back to your home country. Succeeding in both operations is possible, but very hard. Me think the immigration operation is harder.... Good luck.

sprovoost 16y ago
I would like to focus on the first 89 days (if I make it to YC 2011 winter). I don't mind running a "status" operation during those initial three months. I can also live with the possibility that I will have to run my company from The Netherlands for a while (months, years, forever) after that. What I can't live with is the chance of accidentally messing with immigration law during those three months. The big question then is: does Y combinator fall under the restrictions of the Visa Waiver Program? I've heard people claim the whole Y-Combinator program can be seen as "seeking investment", but there's also a coding aspect to it. My plan would be to work as a single founder, doing part of the work myself and hiring others outside the USA through Elance.
- sprovoost 16y ago
  I should mention that the Visa Waiver Program seems to me the only possible option for those first three months, because there is only 1 month between being accepted into the program and moving to Silicon Valley. Other visa options seem to have total processing times in the order of months or worse and no guarantees. So if it can't be legally done under that program, it can't be legally done period, as far as I understand. Also, let's imagine this scenario: 1 - I get accepted into the program 2 - I book a ticket and fly to the USA 3 - I explain the immigration officer in detail what my plan is (I know, they might not even let me) 4 - The immigration officer is "convinced" and lets me into the country* 5 - a while (or even a decade) later it turns out to be illegal. Does that make me liable even though the immigration official made a mistake in approving my visit? Can I even record the conversation for legal purposes? My guess is that immigrant/visitor rights are fairly minimal... * = in my deal with Y-Combinator I would have to account for the possibility of being denied access; either by reversing the investment or by making do with virtual presence.

dotBen 16y ago

I just want to second what alain is saying here. I'm a foreign national working in US on a visa and I've spent a ton of time and money on immigration law. There is some outright CRAP advice in this thread that I know for a fact is BS. Even if you are doing something that is unlikely to get caught at the time, if you ever apply for a green card they will investigate the entire history of your activity in the US and this is when problems can occur. (problems will result in almost certain deportation and being barred from entering US again) I have also heard of a VC/investor passing information to the DHS about a startup founder who pitched him who was working illegally - think about that for a moment. (I've got nothing against him, the investor was totally in his right to do so - plus no one is going to fund a company that has founders working outside the law anyway). PLEASE get legal advice, and from someone who you know has already helped startup founders. Many lawyers don't understand the landscape we are in.

gojomo 16y ago
...a VC/investor passing information to the DHS about a startup founder who pitched him who was working illegally... ...was totally in his right to do so... Huh? From the limited details provided, that sounds highly unethical, unless the founder was endangering others by his presence. A frank discussion with potential investors has to include legal risks, including transgressions-so-far that could, if uncorrectable, cause problems. If the investor takes it upon themselves to report people pitching to immigration (or tax or copyright or employment) authorities, then necessary conversations can't happen. It'd be like pitching an investor and then having them say: "I like what you're doing, and in fact have some investments in a related space. But it sounds like you might not be paying everyone proper overtime, and some of your contractors should probably be reclassified as employees. I've informed my friends at the IRS and EDD. Have a nice day!"
- dotBen 16y ago
  It'd be like pitching an investor and then having them say: "I like what you're doing ... But it sounds like you might not be paying everyone proper overtime, and some of your contractors should probably be reclassified as employees." For a start, it's nothing like that and I think you're being a bit extreme with your counter example. Your example includes 'probably', ie subjective information on the part of the VC. I my original example it's likely that the founder out-right admitted his out-of-status. I don't know the back-story and I only heard it as secondary info (ie not from either party involved) but knowing the SEC and other regulations VCs are under they may well be legally bound to report this and other information. A closer to home example: I know my CPA is legally bound to inform the IRS and DHS of any issues with my immigration status, insider trading on my investments and any tax irregularities. To that end, keep in mind it is also hard to pay tax on income if you are working illegally and not get found out. And if you don't pay tax...

iamjustlooking 16y ago

I sincerely hope that he doesn't follow any advice in this thread except for getting a lawyer because if he willy nilly applies for stupid things he is not likely to succeed in getting (Just apply for a GC? Come on what dream world are some HN'ers living in?) it will severely complicate any future correct application.

jayliew 16y ago

Yup, agreed with Alain that there's so much legally correct, but also legally wrong statements on this thread. This immigration question depends on like a million factors. To name a few, * which country you are a citizen of makes a HUGE difference - every country has a different relationship with the US. Some citizens walk in and out freely and do almost anything they want, while others can't even get their foot in the door * what stage/maturity of your startup is in. If you're already proving that you have profits, can hire US citizens, have raised $, you're going to look a lot better than having nothing but an idea (again, just a broad generalization) * Immigration fraud is a HUGE no-no. If you get caught, they might not ever let you in again. Ever. Depending on severity * A million other tactics. I'm not a lawyer. But I know this is a question that needs an answer that is more than just cookie-cutter advice (if you're serious about your intentions). Talk to a lawyer. Many lawyers. Yes, it sucks and all this is very anti- to the idea that America is the land of opportunity :( Good luck and wish you guys all the best. Do share what worked and what didn't with your fellow immigrant entrepreneurs

gorbachev 16y ago
"which country you are a citizen of makes a HUGE difference" While it makes a big difference in getting into the US (legally) and acquiring whatever visa you need, it makes no difference whatsoever with regards to requirements to work legally within US. You have to have legal authorization to work in the US (i.e. either being a citizen, permanent resident or a temporary resident) regardless of your citizenship.