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Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken. That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern

Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken. That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization.

craftyguy 9y ago
> Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken Well, you wouldn't be wrong for coming to this conclusion (source: this ruling, and more!) > That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization. Not necessarily. Our implementation of this is essentially flawed, but that doesn't mean all possible implementations of rule of law are flawed as badly. I would hope that this would inspire change, but people are inherently against change so at the end of the day you are probably correct.
- helthanatos 9y ago
  The only direction people really want to change in is socially. They focus all their attention on social issues and poverty and taxes. The actual laws don't want to be touched by anyone. We have very poor and contradictory laws and decisions with regards to new technology. The people in charge don't seem to understand the internet and internet-related rights.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    Yep, which is why our implementation is flawed. It allows folks who have no knowledge of certain topics to make and enforce laws that pertain to those topics.
    - ravenstine 9y ago
      I know the solution: Just remove government officials who use the word "cyber".
thatcat 9y ago
There are unfortunately plenty of other ways to learn that lesson. On the up side it may encourage people to participate in distributed systems that are more resilient against arbitrary censorship.
donatj 9y ago
> rule of law [is] essential to modern civilization. I feel like that is a false assumption. How often do you actually appeal to law in your day to day life?
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  I feel like we rely on the implied threat of the law 1000x more than we rely on explicitly calling the law.
  - donatj 9y ago
    I think the threat of an internet mob ala Cecil the Lion could be just as effective.
    - AFNobody 9y ago
      Tell that to African Americans in the South when lynchings were a thing.
      - donatj 9y ago
        If anything, the rule of law of the time all but directly promoted and encouraged it.
        AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        No. The definition of lynching is that it is without legal authority. What blacks were suffering from was the absence of the rule of law. Now, true, the legal authorities were often complicit. But that's still the absence of the rule of law, not the presence of it.
  - srtjstjsj 9y ago
    I think we rely on social mores
chongli 9y ago
justice system It's not a justice system, it's a judicial system. It exists to follow precedent, set new precedent, maintain order, and preserve the authority of the government.
- Erik816 9y ago
  Unless you are talking about any decision that upholds the individual rights of citizens against the government, i.e., the Bill of Rights. Your cynical take doesn't map very well to reality.
StanislavPetrov 9y ago
>Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken. Quite the contrary. This is a lesson that we should all hope is well-learned by the vast majority of people so that it can be fixed, rather then blindly venerated. >That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization. That "the rule of law" is necessary for a modern society to function doesn't mean that every system of laws is beneficial or conducive merely by its existence. The unfortunate fact is that our system of laws, at it exists, is "stupid and broken", in a wide variety of ways, and badly needs fixing. We can't start fixing our broken system until we come to terms with the fact that it is broken, identify the problems, and develop the solutions.
mnm1 9y ago
Teaching? It's already been taught and learned. It does indeed erode such ideas. I guess that's what our society wants when it implements the multitude of stupid laws it does, copyright certainly among them. Hell, anyone who's ever smoked a joint already knows this to be the case as does anyone who is a minority. Maybe our ideas about the rule of law should be eroded, considering how poorly implemented the idea is here in the US.

Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken. That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization.

craftyguy 9y ago

> Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken Well, you wouldn't be wrong for coming to this conclusion (source: this ruling, and more!) > That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization. Not necessarily. Our implementation of this is essentially flawed, but that doesn't mean all possible implementations of rule of law are flawed as badly. I would hope that this would inspire change, but people are inherently against change so at the end of the day you are probably correct.

helthanatos 9y ago
The only direction people really want to change in is socially. They focus all their attention on social issues and poverty and taxes. The actual laws don't want to be touched by anyone. We have very poor and contradictory laws and decisions with regards to new technology. The people in charge don't seem to understand the internet and internet-related rights.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Yep, which is why our implementation is flawed. It allows folks who have no knowledge of certain topics to make and enforce laws that pertain to those topics.
  - ravenstine 9y ago
    I know the solution: Just remove government officials who use the word "cyber".

thatcat 9y ago

There are unfortunately plenty of other ways to learn that lesson. On the up side it may encourage people to participate in distributed systems that are more resilient against arbitrary censorship.

donatj 9y ago

> rule of law [is] essential to modern civilization. I feel like that is a false assumption. How often do you actually appeal to law in your day to day life?

michaelmrose 9y ago
I feel like we rely on the implied threat of the law 1000x more than we rely on explicitly calling the law.
- donatj 9y ago
  I think the threat of an internet mob ala Cecil the Lion could be just as effective.
  - AFNobody 9y ago
    Tell that to African Americans in the South when lynchings were a thing.
    - donatj 9y ago
      If anything, the rule of law of the time all but directly promoted and encouraged it.
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        No. The definition of lynching is that it is without legal authority. What blacks were suffering from was the absence of the rule of law. Now, true, the legal authorities were often complicit. But that's still the absence of the rule of law, not the presence of it.
- srtjstjsj 9y ago
  I think we rely on social mores

chongli 9y ago

justice system It's not a justice system, it's a judicial system. It exists to follow precedent, set new precedent, maintain order, and preserve the authority of the government.

Erik816 9y ago
Unless you are talking about any decision that upholds the individual rights of citizens against the government, i.e., the Bill of Rights. Your cynical take doesn't map very well to reality.

StanislavPetrov 9y ago

>Worse, it is teaching a generation (or more) that our justice system is stupid and broken. Quite the contrary. This is a lesson that we should all hope is well-learned by the vast majority of people so that it can be fixed, rather then blindly venerated. >That in turn erodes ideas like rule of law that a essential to modern civilization. That "the rule of law" is necessary for a modern society to function doesn't mean that every system of laws is beneficial or conducive merely by its existence. The unfortunate fact is that our system of laws, at it exists, is "stupid and broken", in a wide variety of ways, and badly needs fixing. We can't start fixing our broken system until we come to terms with the fact that it is broken, identify the problems, and develop the solutions.

mnm1 9y ago

Teaching? It's already been taught and learned. It does indeed erode such ideas. I guess that's what our society wants when it implements the multitude of stupid laws it does, copyright certainly among them. Hell, anyone who's ever smoked a joint already knows this to be the case as does anyone who is a minority. Maybe our ideas about the rule of law should be eroded, considering how poorly implemented the idea is here in the US.