2 ms·

I've done a lot of hiring, and have found that salary demands are weakly inversely proportional to performance. That is to say, people whose salary demands are

by cowpig 9y ago

I've done a lot of hiring, and have found that salary demands are weakly inversely proportional to performance. That is to say, people whose salary demands are at the lower end of the salary range for that career have outperformed those whose demands are at the higher end. My sample size is small but significant. Food for thought.

spookthesunset 9y ago
Meh. The older and more experienced I get the more I realize I work to put food in the table and to pay for my life outside. Working for “passion” is for suckers. As the dude in that one YouTube video about consulting says, fuck you. Pay me. Pay me what market rate is and don’t give me sob stories about passion or making sacrifices to work on some life changing BS. Pay me.
- b1daly 9y ago
  Pay you for what? I don’t think many red blooded Americans resent leaders of companies that are kicking ass, reaping the rewards. What’s eating away the civic fabric are those who put their own self interest above everyone else. Once you get up into the millions in compensation, I don’t think the concern is that the poor naive CEO is being exploited by working for less than the absolute most they can get. Especially when the level of pay is so high, that it disproportionately impacts the bottom line. I’m sorry, this primacy of market and money above all is sickening.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  The ability to command market salary often depends on your willingness to move for a job. The labor market is not like the stock market. So if you're supporting a family you may want a new approach for thinking about your career.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    I'm supporting a family on a semi-remote job (work from anywhere, employer covers my airfare to our offices as needed), and when I unexpectedly parted ways with my previous employer last year, I doubled my compensation in 2 weeks. "F* you, pay me" is a legitimate operating philosophy as an employee when your skills are in demand. Also important to live below your means and have a 1+ year runway of savings to enable you to negotiate from a position of power, but that's a conversation for another thread. Better said above, "Working for “passion” is for suckers."
ryanwaggoner 9y ago
That's interesting, but I'm pretty skeptical, and I don't even think it's relevant here, unless you were hiring executives for large but dying companies? Here's more food for thought: the five biggest companies in the US are all data-driven tech companies that are renowned for paying ridiculously high compensation. Why wouldn't they apply your framework to both save on hiring costs and boost performance?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Because those tech companies were found to have been illegally colluding to suppress wages of their workers. It’s easier to hire cheap workers when your actions are keeping wages lower than they otherwise would’ve been. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    This is a classic red herring, totally unrelated. If anything, that undermines the point I'm arguing against: why would these companies feel any need to collude to suppress wages if they could get better performance just by hiring cheaper workers? Also, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, etc. weren't part of this suit, so again, not relevant.
    - cowpig 9y ago
      I think it's more like: person who really wants the job but is kind of underqualified > person who is highly qualified, but doesn't really want the job (unless the money is right) edit: I'll add that, for CEOs who should all look amazing on paper and know how to sell themselves, maybe willingness to do the job for less than market is a better signal than most
- lmm 9y ago
  > Here's more food for thought: the five biggest companies in the US are all data-driven tech companies that are renowned for paying ridiculously high compensation. Why wouldn't they apply your framework to both save on hiring costs and boost performance? Because a) at their scale they need to hire in bulk b) their business (advertising, "media"...) simply don't inspire that level of passion in anyone, so money is all they can do.

by cowpig 9y ago

spookthesunset 9y ago

Meh. The older and more experienced I get the more I realize I work to put food in the table and to pay for my life outside. Working for “passion” is for suckers. As the dude in that one YouTube video about consulting says, fuck you. Pay me. Pay me what market rate is and don’t give me sob stories about passion or making sacrifices to work on some life changing BS. Pay me.

b1daly 9y ago
Pay you for what? I don’t think many red blooded Americans resent leaders of companies that are kicking ass, reaping the rewards. What’s eating away the civic fabric are those who put their own self interest above everyone else. Once you get up into the millions in compensation, I don’t think the concern is that the poor naive CEO is being exploited by working for less than the absolute most they can get. Especially when the level of pay is so high, that it disproportionately impacts the bottom line. I’m sorry, this primacy of market and money above all is sickening.
vinceguidry 9y ago
The ability to command market salary often depends on your willingness to move for a job. The labor market is not like the stock market. So if you're supporting a family you may want a new approach for thinking about your career.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  I'm supporting a family on a semi-remote job (work from anywhere, employer covers my airfare to our offices as needed), and when I unexpectedly parted ways with my previous employer last year, I doubled my compensation in 2 weeks. "F* you, pay me" is a legitimate operating philosophy as an employee when your skills are in demand. Also important to live below your means and have a 1+ year runway of savings to enable you to negotiate from a position of power, but that's a conversation for another thread. Better said above, "Working for “passion” is for suckers."

ryanwaggoner 9y ago

That's interesting, but I'm pretty skeptical, and I don't even think it's relevant here, unless you were hiring executives for large but dying companies? Here's more food for thought: the five biggest companies in the US are all data-driven tech companies that are renowned for paying ridiculously high compensation. Why wouldn't they apply your framework to both save on hiring costs and boost performance?

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Because those tech companies were found to have been illegally colluding to suppress wages of their workers. It’s easier to hire cheap workers when your actions are keeping wages lower than they otherwise would’ve been. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  This is a classic red herring, totally unrelated. If anything, that undermines the point I'm arguing against: why would these companies feel any need to collude to suppress wages if they could get better performance just by hiring cheaper workers? Also, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, etc. weren't part of this suit, so again, not relevant.
  - cowpig 9y ago
    I think it's more like: person who really wants the job but is kind of underqualified > person who is highly qualified, but doesn't really want the job (unless the money is right) edit: I'll add that, for CEOs who should all look amazing on paper and know how to sell themselves, maybe willingness to do the job for less than market is a better signal than most
lmm 9y ago
> Here's more food for thought: the five biggest companies in the US are all data-driven tech companies that are renowned for paying ridiculously high compensation. Why wouldn't they apply your framework to both save on hiring costs and boost performance? Because a) at their scale they need to hire in bulk b) their business (advertising, "media"...) simply don't inspire that level of passion in anyone, so money is all they can do.