3 ms·

I was always intrigued by the fact that some languages (especially ancient ones) appear to miss the word for "yes" and "no". I've heard that gaelic and latin f

by ithkuil 16y ago

I was always intrigued by the fact that some languages (especially ancient ones) appear to miss the word for "yes" and "no". I've heard that gaelic and latin for example don't have a real word for "yes", but instead the answer repeated the affirmative form of the verb or similar. Many argue that latin did indeed have the word for yes, namely "ita", but all the dictionaries I looked at translate it as "so; thus; indeed; ..." Other languages like japanese rely much on repetition of the verb but do have words for yes and no (hai to iie). I wonder if it really makes a difference to think in a language which doesn't have a word for yes and no (for whatever reasons is not present in the language, historical stigma etc). I see how it can change your way to discuss with people: "don't be tricky! answer simply, ehm uhm" but I feel this doesn't count as a major mind shaping issue. Don't get me wrong, I was intrigued as anyone with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis but I'm aware that sometimes some intriguing memes get more resonance than they deserve.

cynicalkane 16y ago
I can understand lack of "yes", but lack of "no" seems pretty strange. What do babies in these cultures shout when they don't want something? The idea of "do not want" seems to be one of the most basic things a human will want to express, starting from a very early age.
- mahmud 16y ago
  Classic Arabic has few words for "no", each expressing refusal/denial/rejection of a different sort: la, kalaa, balaa, lam, laysa, lan, etc. la no kalaa definitely not balaa but not lam did not laysa is not lan will not However, colloquial arabic just uses the ma- prefix and collapses all those different words into one: maa/mish/mush/makoo, depending on the dialect. E.g. "I will not try": mish hagarrab (Egyptian) maa `amjarab (Levantian) makoo nijarib (Iraqi/Kuwaiti) maabaa nijarib/nigarib (Yemeni, North/South)
RyanMcGreal 16y ago
>I've heard that gaelic and latin for example don't have a real word for "yes", but instead the answer repeated the affirmative form of the verb or similar. Then they have a way to express affirmation.
- ithkuil 16y ago
  Yes, the fact that you don't have a specific word for a concept doesn't mean that you don't have a concept The trick is probably that some concepts are activated when our language center parses more than one word; we don't think about them as separate words. There are plenty of examples in the vocabularies of various languages, one of my favorites is the word 'alarm': I asked a lot of people in the Italy if they recognize what the word "allarme" comes from. Surprisingly only few recognized the exhortation "all'armi!" (to the weapons!) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=alarm http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=alarm). Sometimes this effect creates a new word, but sometimes a concept remains indirectly expressed, while the speaker unconsciously extracts the high level meaning of it. However, I noticed that most of the amateur discussions about linguistics scratch only the surface because mostly only nouns are touched. For example when I was younger and still living in Croatia. A relative of mine was Macedonian and told me that they have a verb mood that is used when you state something which you are sure that is true, vs only being told that is true. I'm not really sure what is that, after a bit of research I think it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood. "The inferential mood (abbreviated infer or infr) is used to report a nonwitnessed event without confirming it" Does this shape the way you think? After all, even English speakers are able to express the fact that they didn't witness an event; I guess they do, didn't check :-)
  - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
    Interesting etymology of alarm - reminds me of the English "Mayday!" from the French "M'Aider!" (Help me!)
blacksmythe 16y ago
>> I've heard that gaelic and latin for example don't have a real word for "yes", but instead the answer repeated the affirmative form of the verb or similar. That is commonly used the same way in Chinese (at least on the Pimsleur beginner lessons). The answer to 'do you want' is 'want' or 'don't want'. I asked a native Chinese speaker if they have a way to say yes and no without referring to the action involved, and he said that they do. I have notice that people who have gender-neutral pronouns have a lot of trouble mixing up 'he' and 'she' in English.

by ithkuil 16y ago

cynicalkane 16y ago

I can understand lack of "yes", but lack of "no" seems pretty strange. What do babies in these cultures shout when they don't want something? The idea of "do not want" seems to be one of the most basic things a human will want to express, starting from a very early age.

mahmud 16y ago
Classic Arabic has few words for "no", each expressing refusal/denial/rejection of a different sort: la, kalaa, balaa, lam, laysa, lan, etc. la no kalaa definitely not balaa but not lam did not laysa is not lan will not However, colloquial arabic just uses the ma- prefix and collapses all those different words into one: maa/mish/mush/makoo, depending on the dialect. E.g. "I will not try": mish hagarrab (Egyptian) maa `amjarab (Levantian) makoo nijarib (Iraqi/Kuwaiti) maabaa nijarib/nigarib (Yemeni, North/South)

RyanMcGreal 16y ago

>I've heard that gaelic and latin for example don't have a real word for "yes", but instead the answer repeated the affirmative form of the verb or similar. Then they have a way to express affirmation.

ithkuil 16y ago
Yes, the fact that you don't have a specific word for a concept doesn't mean that you don't have a concept The trick is probably that some concepts are activated when our language center parses more than one word; we don't think about them as separate words. There are plenty of examples in the vocabularies of various languages, one of my favorites is the word 'alarm': I asked a lot of people in the Italy if they recognize what the word "allarme" comes from. Surprisingly only few recognized the exhortation "all'armi!" (to the weapons!) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=alarm http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=alarm). Sometimes this effect creates a new word, but sometimes a concept remains indirectly expressed, while the speaker unconsciously extracts the high level meaning of it. However, I noticed that most of the amateur discussions about linguistics scratch only the surface because mostly only nouns are touched. For example when I was younger and still living in Croatia. A relative of mine was Macedonian and told me that they have a verb mood that is used when you state something which you are sure that is true, vs only being told that is true. I'm not really sure what is that, after a bit of research I think it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood. "The inferential mood (abbreviated infer or infr) is used to report a nonwitnessed event without confirming it" Does this shape the way you think? After all, even English speakers are able to express the fact that they didn't witness an event; I guess they do, didn't check :-)
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  Interesting etymology of alarm - reminds me of the English "Mayday!" from the French "M'Aider!" (Help me!)

blacksmythe 16y ago

>> I've heard that gaelic and latin for example don't have a real word for "yes", but instead the answer repeated the affirmative form of the verb or similar. That is commonly used the same way in Chinese (at least on the Pimsleur beginner lessons). The answer to 'do you want' is 'want' or 'don't want'. I asked a native Chinese speaker if they have a way to say yes and no without referring to the action involved, and he said that they do. I have notice that people who have gender-neutral pronouns have a lot of trouble mixing up 'he' and 'she' in English.