8 ms·

In 2017, VR Headset Shipments for Most Top Brands Went Down

42 points by JabavuAdams 9y ago

bitwize 9y ago
Aside from perhaps Rez Infinite, VR doesn't really have a killer app yet. Almost no other title can deliver a compelling experience without risking motion sickness and eyehurt, and Rez Infinite just isn't enough for J. Random Gamer.
- istorical 9y ago
  I'd wager my entire lifesavings that the stickiest, highest DAU/MAU app for vr - SO FAR - is porn like the SLR app. Somewhere in Oculus there's a dashboard showing user retention rates by most commonly used app and SLR or Honey Select or whatever else is at the top. But they can't say that at a press conference. Nobody wants to be the one to tell their buddy "hey check out this porn on my VR headset" so it's not growing as fast as it could via word of mouth. But it's a very very big step up in terms of UX. Would someone pay $300-400 for a better porn experience? Probably not. But if we're talking about "of the people who already own a VR HMD and still use it often rather than letting it collect dust, what do they actually use it for?" The answer is porn.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    Meh, not really man. Porn is tired and obvious. The real killer app for VR is social interaction with other people. It’s quite an experience to see someone else in VR standing before you and interact with them naturally as you would in real life.
    - saddestcatever 9y ago
      My first reaction here is: "Why not both!?" in one. But, you do have a point. However, it's going to be a long time until the VR technology catches up, there's no great social experience (as far as I know) that isn't sitting at the bottom of the Uncanny Valley.
      - bitwize 9y ago
        That just raises the question of what kind of social VR experience would you like -- should it be the Metaverse, or the Matrix? If the Metaverse, you're going to have to accept the uncanniness -- giant dicks, Ugandan Knuckles, and all.
    - tootie 9y ago
      Considering texting has more adoption than video chat even though video is very accessible, I don't see how VR interaction is going to make a really big dent.
      - matte_black 9y ago
        Texts will be more widespread due to their transactional nature. You can’t really do video chat unless you’re ready to sit down and have a conversation.
        tootie 9y ago
        Voice still dominates video too.
  - zerostar07 9y ago
    It may be that people are willing to put up with the drawbacks of the tech because porn is so rewarding, but that doesnt mean the problems went away.
  - T-A 9y ago
    FWIW, I have a Vive, it's not collecting dust, and I've never used it for porn, nor do I feel inclined to.
- kakarot 9y ago
  The reason we don't see a killer "business" app yet is because of the resolution. Once we solve this, and figure out a way to scan and accurately represent the location of interfaces like keyboards, we will see a rush of killer apps. As for games... locomotion constraints really do a number on what works in practice. Carmack's inside-out tracking seems to be coming along well, but then the problem shifts to securing a large enough play area.
  - XorNot 9y ago
    Yeah resolution is basically the problem here. My future of computing idea is essentially a desk with a headset, keyboard and mouse. I'd buy and use this setup if it had the resolution for a lot of money and take it to work (noisy office, literally no reason for me to see around me, open offices have a lot to answer for).
- nickparker 9y ago
  SuperHot VR is pretty close to a killer app for me. Cool mechanics like that scaled up could definitely keep me interested - I burned hours and hours on my roommate's PSVR last Summer exclusively playing SuperHot
- kirrent 9y ago
  There's no shortage of compelling experiences without motion sickness and eyehurt. SuperHot, Robo-Recall, Doom, Chronos, Rec-room, Echo Arena, Elite: Dangerous, Virtual Rickality, etc. are all great.
  - Yen 9y ago
    FWIW, I would not recommend Elite: Dangerous as an experience without motion sickness. The game features artificial yaw, pitch, and roll. Even though I'm fairly experienced with VR, and fairly resistant to motion sickness, my first few sessions with E:D were notably disorienting. Yaw in particular is discouraged for comfortable VR experiences. Once that's passed, E:D also features a lot of small text. Also, the default behavior of the cockpit control panels in VR - appear when you look at them, disappear when you're not looking exactly at them - encourages some head movements that will give you neck pains really quick. All that said, there's something really compelling about feeling the tight cockpit of a Sidewinder, being able to stand up and walk around the cockpit of an AspX, or looking through the glass floor to line up a landing in an AspX. +1 to SuperHot & Virtual Rickality, too.
    - kirrent 9y ago
      You're probably right on Elite. I never found it a problem because the pace of gameplay is fairly slow and the cockpit takes up a lot of your field of view but experiences of motion sickness are highly subjective.
cryptoz 9y ago
I have purchased multiple VR headsets (the kind that your phone goes into, not "full vr") and each one has massively hurt my face. The Cardboard ones hurt my nose from the very second I put it on or hold it to my face (while using it and for some time after). The only way to get a good picture is to have instant and intense pain in my nose. Google Daydream is a bit better. With the nice fabric and straps it takes about 1-2 minutes before the intense head pain starts. Not only is it insanely heavy and makes any experience hurt my neck, but also, it hurts my nose too! (I do wear glasses, but each of these products says that it doesn't matter and that glasses-wearers can use VR too. Not sure if that is a lie or if this affects non-glasses-wearers just as much). Additionally, the content available in the Play Store is not of great quality, in my opinion. The paid content is also a mess, not just the free stuff. There are some neat games, but they don't work well (lose save state, etc) and everything hurts physically after 1-2 minutes on a $100 system. I'll wait many many years before trying to purchase again. It feels like the '80s VR rush all over again, where actually using the product falls so far short of the expectation that I'm disillusioned. It's true that I have not yet tried a "Full VR" system - but they have been too expensive so far and I am not certain that they would be any less awful of an experience for me to use. Do other people have the same head pain issues as I do? I would certainly expect that the decline in sales is mostly to do with people finding out that actually using VR isn't very fun (yet). Edit: I bought a $10 game, Eclipse I think, where I have had to play the same intro level to the game like 8-10 times, because my nose hurts so much that I have to take a break. But you can't take a break or you lose your save state (I have spent more time than I would like to admit trying to find a way to save the state, this game looks super neat). But now if I want to play this game I paid $10 for, I have to play the same sequence again and again, and try to finish before the nose pain is unbearable. At this point, I am losing interest in the game despite its amazing reviews and my previous intense dedication to playing it.
- jraines 9y ago
  The Vive headset hurts my big schnoz. As far as the sales go, my impression from using a high-end system is: this is amazing, but a couple years away. And since I'm not much of a gamer, what I really want is AR, which is probably a bit further. Google Earth VR is the most amazing product I've used in the last few years, though.
usernam 9y ago
I would have several actual uses for VR, and from the top of my head I'd kill to have proper depth perception and enhanced controls while modeling the solids I have to make. The headsets make today would meet my requirements perfectly. The price is not an issue. As a coder, I wouldn't have any problems with just a library exposing the display and sensors. However the VR market is just full of BS and lock-in. I'm not moving an inch on any of these closed platforms.
- eropple 9y ago
  Razer has an OSVR headset. Oculus is OSVR-compatible. Even Vive has a (less supported) OSVR plugin. What's your complaint?
  - leoc 9y ago
    There's also a Khronos standard in the works: https://www.khronos.org/openxr https://www.khronos.org/openxr .
- sigstoat 9y ago
  have you actually looked at oculus' API? it is just a library exposing the displays and sensors, and it's probably the most vendor-specific of them. you could #ifdef between it and any other VR library with minimal effort.
  - ccvannorman 9y ago
    SteamVR literally lets you build for Vive or Oculus with identical code and builds (using Unity)
aphextron 9y ago
VR is awesome, but strapping a cell phone to your face with magnifying lenses is stupid. The technology needs to progress beyond this paradigm to ever be successful. Even the high end “real vr” HMD’s are just a cellphone strapped to your face. Perhaps once solid state optical waveguides are a thing we will see mass adoption. But the current gen is extremely lackluster and frankly useless once the initial wow factor wears off.
- fzeroracer 9y ago
  Saying that VR headsets are cellphones strapped to your face is just flatly wrong. There is a lot of work poured into VR when you start talking about room-scale plus intuitive control solutions. I would far from say that it is extremely lackluster considering what I've experienced and worked with thus far.
  - tvon 9y ago
    I believe they are referring to those Android VR headsets like "Gear VR" by Samsung.
EddieSpeaks 9y ago
Because none of the three big brands were updated in any way. WMR has no software, and PSVR sold pretty well
seltzered_ 9y ago
One thing I didn’t see in the comments or the article: the price rise/shortages in GPUs which is impacting those interested in pc gaming (and thus vive/oculus VR systems). I’ve actually been warming up to play with VR more but am concerned first-party eGPU solutions (I.e a MacBook eGPU box) will get delayed.
- swalsh 9y ago
  I definitely think this is part of the story. Most people need to upgrade their systems to support VR, but it is becoming prohibitively expensive to get a decent card.
downrightmike 9y ago
Can't use VR if you can't get a decent GPU
- ziqiaojin 9y ago
  Can't get a decent GPU if you can't get a decent CPU
  - lowmagnet 9y ago
    Can't use your CPU when RAM doubles and trebles in price. ETA: I looked up my graphics card and it had also doubled in 'value' since I bought it. From my cold, dead hands though.
Apocryphon 9y ago
Here we come across a great Trough.
arpit 9y ago
Popping a mobile phone into a VR headset is a pain, as is all the cables on the high end (desktop) VR platforms. I am curious how Oculus Go[1], launching soon changes the game (if it does). At the very least, it opens the market to a lot of iOS users. Thoughts? [1] https://www.oculus.com/go/ https://www.oculus.com/go/
ergothus 9y ago
I recently got the PS4 VR system, and....wow. I expected a glitchy system that was too early to be useful but had neat moments. What I got was a glitchy system that has some useful parts already and the neat moments really show the promise. Despite it being not very realistic, my brain was happy to adjust. Playing Skyrim with peripheral vision and being able to reach out to the side and snag some item without changing the direction I was moving was surprisingly amazing. I found my body reacting as if the projection was real - flinching, trying to scratch my nose because I forgot I was wearing a huge mask, ducking, reaching out with an arm, peeking around a corner, glancing. I'm a terrible gamer, so "block" functions are something I rarely use...but pulling up my shield when someone is swinging a sword at me was natural - and seemingly worked. Fruit Ninja VR is the sword/lightsaber game I've always wanted. Full angle and rotational movement, I could slice, slap aside with the flat of the blade, and even spear completely naturally. Some games have the controller wands replaced by hands in the projection and I would occasionally drop the controllers because I was trying to use my "fingers". Motion definitely makes motion sickness more likely. Smudges on the eyepieces are terrible, and getting just the right focus and calibration is finicky, especially vertical (some games have me stand at the same distance from the camera that other games require I sit). Teleportation movement broke immersion a lot, but constitutes an entire new genre of game as far as I could tell - I tried a demo of a shooter that had only teleportation movement, and the tactics it involved were totally new. Archery imitations fell very flat for me - motions a bit too imprecise to "nock" an arrow, and holding a wand in each hand is not close enough to a bow and sting. The lack of tactile feedback on the draw strength was surprisingly less important than I expected though. The Star Trek Bridge Crew game and Battle(something involving tanks) gave me control panels to my immediate left and right that seemed perfectly natural in ways that a flatscreen display has not. Honestly, we're a lot closer to a big interface change than I thought. I think the Input is now behind the Output. Get me Geek gloves so that I'm not holding a controller and can have my fingers in game and some more natural way to indicate walking/running/jumping and I'll call the package truly revolutionary even with the various caveats and finicky-ness of the VR display. (of course, I just listed some things I have no idea how to implement) After a couple of hours, I was ready for the Singularity. Upload me and screw this physical limitations business. The VR wasn't real, but it was already close enough to make me very happy. That said, while I have a blast each time I use it, I often elect to not go through the hassle of getting it all set up when I have some rare free time to play a game, particularly during daylight hours when the sun might wreak havoc with the camera's ability to find the helmet. I'm not surprised sales haven't been strong. I also won't be surprised if that changes dramatically when it's a pair of goggle-sized goggles, even without input changes, and with input improvements it's...surprisingly awesome.
leoc 9y ago
> In many more words: 2017 sales of "full VR" rigs were flat or even negative, with Rift shipping slightly more HMDs in 2016 than 2017, and HTC Vive shipping less last year than the year before. By those numbers, PC VR sales are only down in 2017 if you exclude Windows MR. That seems a bit arbitrary, as the Odyssey at least is apparently a fairly decent system overall. Again by these figures, sales of all PC and console VR systems are up except for the most expensive, the Vive, which was $800 US for most of 2017. That seems to support optimism that future PC VR price reductions will improve sales: especially an end to the cryptocoin-driven GPU cost (and availability) crisis. It also has to be said that people with inside information have publicly expressed skepticism about the SuperData numbers: https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/959172783765729280 https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/959172783765729280 (Repost of my comment: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/01/vr-sales-shipments-2017-superdata.html?cid=6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c95052ff970b#comment-6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c95052ff970b http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/01/vr-sales-shipments-2017-sup... )

42 points by JabavuAdams 9y ago

Aside from perhaps Rez Infinite, VR doesn't really have a killer app yet. Almost no other title can deliver a compelling experience without risking motion sickness and eyehurt, and Rez Infinite just isn't enough for J. Random Gamer.

istorical 9y ago
I'd wager my entire lifesavings that the stickiest, highest DAU/MAU app for vr - SO FAR - is porn like the SLR app. Somewhere in Oculus there's a dashboard showing user retention rates by most commonly used app and SLR or Honey Select or whatever else is at the top. But they can't say that at a press conference. Nobody wants to be the one to tell their buddy "hey check out this porn on my VR headset" so it's not growing as fast as it could via word of mouth. But it's a very very big step up in terms of UX. Would someone pay $300-400 for a better porn experience? Probably not. But if we're talking about "of the people who already own a VR HMD and still use it often rather than letting it collect dust, what do they actually use it for?" The answer is porn.
- matte_black 9y ago
  Meh, not really man. Porn is tired and obvious. The real killer app for VR is social interaction with other people. It’s quite an experience to see someone else in VR standing before you and interact with them naturally as you would in real life.
  - saddestcatever 9y ago
    My first reaction here is: "Why not both!?" in one. But, you do have a point. However, it's going to be a long time until the VR technology catches up, there's no great social experience (as far as I know) that isn't sitting at the bottom of the Uncanny Valley.
    - bitwize 9y ago
      That just raises the question of what kind of social VR experience would you like -- should it be the Metaverse, or the Matrix? If the Metaverse, you're going to have to accept the uncanniness -- giant dicks, Ugandan Knuckles, and all.
  - tootie 9y ago
    Considering texting has more adoption than video chat even though video is very accessible, I don't see how VR interaction is going to make a really big dent.
    - matte_black 9y ago
      Texts will be more widespread due to their transactional nature. You can’t really do video chat unless you’re ready to sit down and have a conversation.
      - tootie 9y ago
        Voice still dominates video too.
- zerostar07 9y ago
  It may be that people are willing to put up with the drawbacks of the tech because porn is so rewarding, but that doesnt mean the problems went away.
- T-A 9y ago
  FWIW, I have a Vive, it's not collecting dust, and I've never used it for porn, nor do I feel inclined to.
kakarot 9y ago
The reason we don't see a killer "business" app yet is because of the resolution. Once we solve this, and figure out a way to scan and accurately represent the location of interfaces like keyboards, we will see a rush of killer apps. As for games... locomotion constraints really do a number on what works in practice. Carmack's inside-out tracking seems to be coming along well, but then the problem shifts to securing a large enough play area.
- XorNot 9y ago
  Yeah resolution is basically the problem here. My future of computing idea is essentially a desk with a headset, keyboard and mouse. I'd buy and use this setup if it had the resolution for a lot of money and take it to work (noisy office, literally no reason for me to see around me, open offices have a lot to answer for).
nickparker 9y ago
SuperHot VR is pretty close to a killer app for me. Cool mechanics like that scaled up could definitely keep me interested - I burned hours and hours on my roommate's PSVR last Summer exclusively playing SuperHot
kirrent 9y ago
There's no shortage of compelling experiences without motion sickness and eyehurt. SuperHot, Robo-Recall, Doom, Chronos, Rec-room, Echo Arena, Elite: Dangerous, Virtual Rickality, etc. are all great.
- Yen 9y ago
  FWIW, I would not recommend Elite: Dangerous as an experience without motion sickness. The game features artificial yaw, pitch, and roll. Even though I'm fairly experienced with VR, and fairly resistant to motion sickness, my first few sessions with E:D were notably disorienting. Yaw in particular is discouraged for comfortable VR experiences. Once that's passed, E:D also features a lot of small text. Also, the default behavior of the cockpit control panels in VR - appear when you look at them, disappear when you're not looking exactly at them - encourages some head movements that will give you neck pains really quick. All that said, there's something really compelling about feeling the tight cockpit of a Sidewinder, being able to stand up and walk around the cockpit of an AspX, or looking through the glass floor to line up a landing in an AspX. +1 to SuperHot & Virtual Rickality, too.
  - kirrent 9y ago
    You're probably right on Elite. I never found it a problem because the pace of gameplay is fairly slow and the cockpit takes up a lot of your field of view but experiences of motion sickness are highly subjective.

cryptoz 9y ago

I have purchased multiple VR headsets (the kind that your phone goes into, not "full vr") and each one has massively hurt my face. The Cardboard ones hurt my nose from the very second I put it on or hold it to my face (while using it and for some time after). The only way to get a good picture is to have instant and intense pain in my nose. Google Daydream is a bit better. With the nice fabric and straps it takes about 1-2 minutes before the intense head pain starts. Not only is it insanely heavy and makes any experience hurt my neck, but also, it hurts my nose too! (I do wear glasses, but each of these products says that it doesn't matter and that glasses-wearers can use VR too. Not sure if that is a lie or if this affects non-glasses-wearers just as much). Additionally, the content available in the Play Store is not of great quality, in my opinion. The paid content is also a mess, not just the free stuff. There are some neat games, but they don't work well (lose save state, etc) and everything hurts physically after 1-2 minutes on a $100 system. I'll wait many many years before trying to purchase again. It feels like the '80s VR rush all over again, where actually using the product falls so far short of the expectation that I'm disillusioned. It's true that I have not yet tried a "Full VR" system - but they have been too expensive so far and I am not certain that they would be any less awful of an experience for me to use. Do other people have the same head pain issues as I do? I would certainly expect that the decline in sales is mostly to do with people finding out that actually using VR isn't very fun (yet). Edit: I bought a $10 game, Eclipse I think, where I have had to play the same intro level to the game like 8-10 times, because my nose hurts so much that I have to take a break. But you can't take a break or you lose your save state (I have spent more time than I would like to admit trying to find a way to save the state, this game looks super neat). But now if I want to play this game I paid $10 for, I have to play the same sequence again and again, and try to finish before the nose pain is unbearable. At this point, I am losing interest in the game despite its amazing reviews and my previous intense dedication to playing it.

jraines 9y ago
The Vive headset hurts my big schnoz. As far as the sales go, my impression from using a high-end system is: this is amazing, but a couple years away. And since I'm not much of a gamer, what I really want is AR, which is probably a bit further. Google Earth VR is the most amazing product I've used in the last few years, though.

usernam 9y ago

I would have several actual uses for VR, and from the top of my head I'd kill to have proper depth perception and enhanced controls while modeling the solids I have to make. The headsets make today would meet my requirements perfectly. The price is not an issue. As a coder, I wouldn't have any problems with just a library exposing the display and sensors. However the VR market is just full of BS and lock-in. I'm not moving an inch on any of these closed platforms.

eropple 9y ago
Razer has an OSVR headset. Oculus is OSVR-compatible. Even Vive has a (less supported) OSVR plugin. What's your complaint?
- leoc 9y ago
  There's also a Khronos standard in the works: https://www.khronos.org/openxr https://www.khronos.org/openxr .
sigstoat 9y ago
have you actually looked at oculus' API? it is just a library exposing the displays and sensors, and it's probably the most vendor-specific of them. you could #ifdef between it and any other VR library with minimal effort.
- ccvannorman 9y ago
  SteamVR literally lets you build for Vive or Oculus with identical code and builds (using Unity)

aphextron 9y ago

VR is awesome, but strapping a cell phone to your face with magnifying lenses is stupid. The technology needs to progress beyond this paradigm to ever be successful. Even the high end “real vr” HMD’s are just a cellphone strapped to your face. Perhaps once solid state optical waveguides are a thing we will see mass adoption. But the current gen is extremely lackluster and frankly useless once the initial wow factor wears off.

fzeroracer 9y ago
Saying that VR headsets are cellphones strapped to your face is just flatly wrong. There is a lot of work poured into VR when you start talking about room-scale plus intuitive control solutions. I would far from say that it is extremely lackluster considering what I've experienced and worked with thus far.
- tvon 9y ago
  I believe they are referring to those Android VR headsets like "Gear VR" by Samsung.

EddieSpeaks 9y ago

Because none of the three big brands were updated in any way. WMR has no software, and PSVR sold pretty well

seltzered_ 9y ago

One thing I didn’t see in the comments or the article: the price rise/shortages in GPUs which is impacting those interested in pc gaming (and thus vive/oculus VR systems). I’ve actually been warming up to play with VR more but am concerned first-party eGPU solutions (I.e a MacBook eGPU box) will get delayed.

swalsh 9y ago
I definitely think this is part of the story. Most people need to upgrade their systems to support VR, but it is becoming prohibitively expensive to get a decent card.

downrightmike 9y ago

Can't use VR if you can't get a decent GPU

ziqiaojin 9y ago
Can't get a decent GPU if you can't get a decent CPU
- lowmagnet 9y ago
  Can't use your CPU when RAM doubles and trebles in price. ETA: I looked up my graphics card and it had also doubled in 'value' since I bought it. From my cold, dead hands though.

Apocryphon 9y ago

Here we come across a great Trough.

arpit 9y ago

Popping a mobile phone into a VR headset is a pain, as is all the cables on the high end (desktop) VR platforms. I am curious how Oculus Go[1], launching soon changes the game (if it does). At the very least, it opens the market to a lot of iOS users. Thoughts? [1] https://www.oculus.com/go/ https://www.oculus.com/go/

ergothus 9y ago

I recently got the PS4 VR system, and....wow. I expected a glitchy system that was too early to be useful but had neat moments. What I got was a glitchy system that has some useful parts already and the neat moments really show the promise. Despite it being not very realistic, my brain was happy to adjust. Playing Skyrim with peripheral vision and being able to reach out to the side and snag some item without changing the direction I was moving was surprisingly amazing. I found my body reacting as if the projection was real - flinching, trying to scratch my nose because I forgot I was wearing a huge mask, ducking, reaching out with an arm, peeking around a corner, glancing. I'm a terrible gamer, so "block" functions are something I rarely use...but pulling up my shield when someone is swinging a sword at me was natural - and seemingly worked. Fruit Ninja VR is the sword/lightsaber game I've always wanted. Full angle and rotational movement, I could slice, slap aside with the flat of the blade, and even spear completely naturally. Some games have the controller wands replaced by hands in the projection and I would occasionally drop the controllers because I was trying to use my "fingers". Motion definitely makes motion sickness more likely. Smudges on the eyepieces are terrible, and getting just the right focus and calibration is finicky, especially vertical (some games have me stand at the same distance from the camera that other games require I sit). Teleportation movement broke immersion a lot, but constitutes an entire new genre of game as far as I could tell - I tried a demo of a shooter that had only teleportation movement, and the tactics it involved were totally new. Archery imitations fell very flat for me - motions a bit too imprecise to "nock" an arrow, and holding a wand in each hand is not close enough to a bow and sting. The lack of tactile feedback on the draw strength was surprisingly less important than I expected though. The Star Trek Bridge Crew game and Battle(something involving tanks) gave me control panels to my immediate left and right that seemed perfectly natural in ways that a flatscreen display has not. Honestly, we're a lot closer to a big interface change than I thought. I think the Input is now behind the Output. Get me Geek gloves so that I'm not holding a controller and can have my fingers in game and some more natural way to indicate walking/running/jumping and I'll call the package truly revolutionary even with the various caveats and finicky-ness of the VR display. (of course, I just listed some things I have no idea how to implement) After a couple of hours, I was ready for the Singularity. Upload me and screw this physical limitations business. The VR wasn't real, but it was already close enough to make me very happy. That said, while I have a blast each time I use it, I often elect to not go through the hassle of getting it all set up when I have some rare free time to play a game, particularly during daylight hours when the sun might wreak havoc with the camera's ability to find the helmet. I'm not surprised sales haven't been strong. I also won't be surprised if that changes dramatically when it's a pair of goggle-sized goggles, even without input changes, and with input improvements it's...surprisingly awesome.

leoc 9y ago

> In many more words: 2017 sales of "full VR" rigs were flat or even negative, with Rift shipping slightly more HMDs in 2016 than 2017, and HTC Vive shipping less last year than the year before. By those numbers, PC VR sales are only down in 2017 if you exclude Windows MR. That seems a bit arbitrary, as the Odyssey at least is apparently a fairly decent system overall. Again by these figures, sales of all PC and console VR systems are up except for the most expensive, the Vive, which was $800 US for most of 2017. That seems to support optimism that future PC VR price reductions will improve sales: especially an end to the cryptocoin-driven GPU cost (and availability) crisis. It also has to be said that people with inside information have publicly expressed skepticism about the SuperData numbers: https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/959172783765729280 https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/959172783765729280 (Repost of my comment: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/01/vr-sales-shipments-2017-superdata.html?cid=6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c95052ff970b#comment-6a00d8341bf74053ef01b7c95052ff970b http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/01/vr-sales-shipments-2017-sup... )