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>It's never that simple, especially for professional users and gamers. Those whose applications are only available for Windows. I'm both, and you're definitely

>It's never that simple, especially for professional users and gamers. Those whose applications are only available for Windows. I'm both, and you're definitely wrong. 155 of my 343 steam games have direct native ports. I've just stopped playing stellaris and started playing KSP. I've been a linux gamer for the last three years and it's been a better experience, not worse. I dominate on ballistic overkill because the input lag is noticeably lower on linux. I'm also a software developer, and with the exception of dotnet development, software development is a considerably smoother and more consistant experience on linux. It grates every day to have to use windows at work, and I do half of my work inside a linux VM.

TomMarius 9y ago
What about AutoCAD, Inventor, Photoshop, AfterEffects, Lightroom, ...?
- falcolas 9y ago
  Maya, Sketchbook, Fusion, Visual Studio, DirectX, Microsoft Office, Acrobat, ... Here's one really simple example for you of why this Windows software matters to a very large community of professionals: most accounting work is both taught and done in Excel.
- Sir_Substance 9y ago
  Autocad/inventor->OpenScad/FreeCad Photoshop->Gimp or just run it with wine Lightroom->Darktable Here's a few other pretty awesome art tools you might want to know about BTW: Krita Blender Inkscape If we're doing "what abouts" though, what about: freely interchangable desktop layouts native docker support a user-friendly terminal an os kernel that is designed to be malware resistant Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. Custom launchers are one of the most downloaded android app categories, don't try to tell me people don't want it. But hey, at least windows finally got multiple desktops by cribbing the idea from linux after two decades of unsuccessfully trying to tell their customers that it wasn't really that good a feature. If the best you can say about your operating system is "adobe supports it", which is what it seems like you're saying, then oh dear. Like, I get it, photoshop is pretty darn good. But for realsies, we're in a thread where the title post is about microsoft installing random crap on your computer without permission. This is the same company that is showing ads on your lock screen and start bar[1], has been formally chastised by national governments for it's handling of telemetry[2], autoinstalled updates that bricked peoples laptops[3] and then autoinstalled other updates that put other peoples computers in reboot loops[4]. They're gonna keep doing this stuff. For goodness sake, they incentivised peoples "upgrades" from windows 7 by installing nagware with a deliberately malicious UI[5], and attempting to directly cause professional conflict for sysadmins with stability concerns[6]. You're part of an eternal beta of questionable QA control at the hands of a company that has a documented history of behaving unethically. Do they have to send someone round to your house to kill and eat your cat in front of you before you decide you could maybe dig deep and stoop to learning gimp? [1]https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windows-10-pushes-ads-at-you-and-how-to-stop-them.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windo... [2]http://www.zdnet.com/article/french-authorities-serve-notice-to-microsoft-for-windows-10-privacy-failings/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/french-authorities-serve-notice... [3]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/08/25/windows-10-anniversary-update-keeps-breaking-pcs/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/08/25/windows-10-... [4]http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-fall-creators-update-bug-blocks-the-install-on-some-pcs-518214.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-fall-creators-upda... [5]https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/229040-microsofts-latest-trick-clicking-x-to-dismiss-windows-10-upgrade-doesnt-stop-upgrade-process https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/229040-microsofts-latest... [6]https://www.windowschimp.com/admins-angered-new-windows-10-upgrade-push/ https://www.windowschimp.com/admins-angered-new-windows-10-u...
  - badsectoracula 9y ago
    > Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. Actually, it is worse: you used to be able to replace the default desktop and install your own from the first versions of Windows up until recently. Now you can't and with Windows 8 Microsoft removed a ton of functionality when it comes to customization (e.g. you cannot disable DWM and you cannot use the classic theme - which was the only one with support for totally customizable color schemes).
    - ChoGGi 9y ago
      >> Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. So these shell replacements I've been using for over a decade don't exist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for... The only time explorer.exe is running on my computer is when I need some special control panel setting.
      - GordonS 9y ago
        Most of them seem to be discontinued - can I ask which one you use, and what benefits it has over the standard Windows 10 shell?
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    I wasn't asking for alternatives, that's not an option. You have to stay compatible with the rest of the company/industry. Also do you really think these CAD tools are comparable at all? Using Wine in work is also not an option, it is too unpredictable (although it's improving at a fast pace). I know Linux has these features and that's why I personally use it. Clearly they're not the focus of other users though.
    - Sir_Substance 9y ago
      >I wasn't asking for alternatives, that's not an option. You have to stay compatible with the rest of the company/industry. Also do you really think these CAD tools are comparable at all? If you're building a helicopter, they're not comparable at all. However, the word professional is a rather wider scope than that, and they're excellent for anyone whos business does not revolve around engineering, but has it as an auxiliary. Just as there are whole industries, like banking, that have software developers as a subset of the org chart, there are whole industries that need just a little bit of 3d CAD work. I would not recommend professional grade adobe editing packages to an independent real estate agent that basically just needs to crop and color-correct photos, and I would not recommend autodesk inventor to a city planner that just needs to 3d print stand-in terrain. Nor would I suggest a $40,000 stratasys printer to them by the way. If you're not going to use the advanced features then the cost is high and the licensing compliance is more painful for no net benefit. GIMP and FreeCAD are exceptional front-runners for these kinds of purposes. By the way, staying compatible with the industry is a great way to be non-exceptional. I'm not saying linux is the magical bullet of business success (because it's not), but if whatever you're doing is 100% compatible with industry software, then you're not doing anything that someone else hasn't already thought of. If you ever decide you want to move outside the bounds of what others have already done, you'll suddenly discover that open source is a competitive advantage, because it's much easier to extend it to the bleeding edge.
suby 9y ago
Maybe I'm misreading this, but if I'm not, just posting to let you know that Stellaris definitely has a Linux port.
- Sir_Substance 9y ago
  I know, I've been playing it tonnes. Looking forward very much to the new expansion, it's gonna be a great shakeup.
falcolas 9y ago
Software developers are probably one of the few professional groups with virtually no software that ties them explicitly to Windows or MacOS. Accountants, artists, video editors, modelers, engineers, car mechanics... so many others rely on software only available on Windows. On the gaming note - I'm glad you enjoy the games available on Linux, and that you were OK giving up some games you enjoyed. Personally, I'm working my way through WoW, with some dabbling in Space Engineers and Subnautica. None of which are available on Linux, without diving into the world of Wine. Could I give up Windows PC gaming entirely? Sure.Could I dive into the convoluted and not-always-reliable world of Wine? Sure. Could Bob Ross have given up oil painting for acrylics? Sure. But... it doesn't sound like much fun.
woolvalley 9y ago
Unity is probably the big reason why many games have native linux & macos versions today. On macos, the mac versions tend to be slower than the windows versions on the same hardware.
yesenadam 9y ago
In the chess world, everyone—every strong player in the world, it seems—uses ChessBase, which is Windows only. They used to have a Mac version years ago but it apparently was the worst software ever. It's used for studying recent master games, storing and training on your opening theory, analysing with computer engines to find new moves in the opening, studying the games of your next opponent etc. Other programs have similar functions, but it's more powerful, and no grandmaster uses anything else. Also its data format is secret, so no other software can convert to or from ChessBase format. It was created by some Germans in collaboration with Kasparov in the 1980s, and was instrumental to his unprecedented level of opening theory knowledge.

TomMarius 9y ago

What about AutoCAD, Inventor, Photoshop, AfterEffects, Lightroom, ...?

falcolas 9y ago
Maya, Sketchbook, Fusion, Visual Studio, DirectX, Microsoft Office, Acrobat, ... Here's one really simple example for you of why this Windows software matters to a very large community of professionals: most accounting work is both taught and done in Excel.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
Autocad/inventor->OpenScad/FreeCad Photoshop->Gimp or just run it with wine Lightroom->Darktable Here's a few other pretty awesome art tools you might want to know about BTW: Krita Blender Inkscape If we're doing "what abouts" though, what about: freely interchangable desktop layouts native docker support a user-friendly terminal an os kernel that is designed to be malware resistant Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. Custom launchers are one of the most downloaded android app categories, don't try to tell me people don't want it. But hey, at least windows finally got multiple desktops by cribbing the idea from linux after two decades of unsuccessfully trying to tell their customers that it wasn't really that good a feature. If the best you can say about your operating system is "adobe supports it", which is what it seems like you're saying, then oh dear. Like, I get it, photoshop is pretty darn good. But for realsies, we're in a thread where the title post is about microsoft installing random crap on your computer without permission. This is the same company that is showing ads on your lock screen and start bar[1], has been formally chastised by national governments for it's handling of telemetry[2], autoinstalled updates that bricked peoples laptops[3] and then autoinstalled other updates that put other peoples computers in reboot loops[4]. They're gonna keep doing this stuff. For goodness sake, they incentivised peoples "upgrades" from windows 7 by installing nagware with a deliberately malicious UI[5], and attempting to directly cause professional conflict for sysadmins with stability concerns[6]. You're part of an eternal beta of questionable QA control at the hands of a company that has a documented history of behaving unethically. Do they have to send someone round to your house to kill and eat your cat in front of you before you decide you could maybe dig deep and stoop to learning gimp? [1]https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windows-10-pushes-ads-at-you-and-how-to-stop-them.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windo... [2]http://www.zdnet.com/article/french-authorities-serve-notice-to-microsoft-for-windows-10-privacy-failings/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/french-authorities-serve-notice... [3]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/08/25/windows-10-anniversary-update-keeps-breaking-pcs/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/08/25/windows-10-... [4]http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-fall-creators-update-bug-blocks-the-install-on-some-pcs-518214.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-fall-creators-upda... [5]https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/229040-microsofts-latest-trick-clicking-x-to-dismiss-windows-10-upgrade-doesnt-stop-upgrade-process https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/229040-microsofts-latest... [6]https://www.windowschimp.com/admins-angered-new-windows-10-upgrade-push/ https://www.windowschimp.com/admins-angered-new-windows-10-u...
- badsectoracula 9y ago
  > Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. Actually, it is worse: you used to be able to replace the default desktop and install your own from the first versions of Windows up until recently. Now you can't and with Windows 8 Microsoft removed a ton of functionality when it comes to customization (e.g. you cannot disable DWM and you cannot use the classic theme - which was the only one with support for totally customizable color schemes).
  - ChoGGi 9y ago
    >> Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. So these shell replacements I've been using for over a decade don't exist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for... The only time explorer.exe is running on my computer is when I need some special control panel setting.
    - GordonS 9y ago
      Most of them seem to be discontinued - can I ask which one you use, and what benefits it has over the standard Windows 10 shell?
- TomMarius 9y ago
  I wasn't asking for alternatives, that's not an option. You have to stay compatible with the rest of the company/industry. Also do you really think these CAD tools are comparable at all? Using Wine in work is also not an option, it is too unpredictable (although it's improving at a fast pace). I know Linux has these features and that's why I personally use it. Clearly they're not the focus of other users though.
  - Sir_Substance 9y ago
    >I wasn't asking for alternatives, that's not an option. You have to stay compatible with the rest of the company/industry. Also do you really think these CAD tools are comparable at all? If you're building a helicopter, they're not comparable at all. However, the word professional is a rather wider scope than that, and they're excellent for anyone whos business does not revolve around engineering, but has it as an auxiliary. Just as there are whole industries, like banking, that have software developers as a subset of the org chart, there are whole industries that need just a little bit of 3d CAD work. I would not recommend professional grade adobe editing packages to an independent real estate agent that basically just needs to crop and color-correct photos, and I would not recommend autodesk inventor to a city planner that just needs to 3d print stand-in terrain. Nor would I suggest a $40,000 stratasys printer to them by the way. If you're not going to use the advanced features then the cost is high and the licensing compliance is more painful for no net benefit. GIMP and FreeCAD are exceptional front-runners for these kinds of purposes. By the way, staying compatible with the industry is a great way to be non-exceptional. I'm not saying linux is the magical bullet of business success (because it's not), but if whatever you're doing is 100% compatible with industry software, then you're not doing anything that someone else hasn't already thought of. If you ever decide you want to move outside the bounds of what others have already done, you'll suddenly discover that open source is a competitive advantage, because it's much easier to extend it to the bleeding edge.

suby 9y ago

Maybe I'm misreading this, but if I'm not, just posting to let you know that Stellaris definitely has a Linux port.

Sir_Substance 9y ago
I know, I've been playing it tonnes. Looking forward very much to the new expansion, it's gonna be a great shakeup.

falcolas 9y ago

Software developers are probably one of the few professional groups with virtually no software that ties them explicitly to Windows or MacOS. Accountants, artists, video editors, modelers, engineers, car mechanics... so many others rely on software only available on Windows. On the gaming note - I'm glad you enjoy the games available on Linux, and that you were OK giving up some games you enjoyed. Personally, I'm working my way through WoW, with some dabbling in Space Engineers and Subnautica. None of which are available on Linux, without diving into the world of Wine. Could I give up Windows PC gaming entirely? Sure.Could I dive into the convoluted and not-always-reliable world of Wine? Sure. Could Bob Ross have given up oil painting for acrylics? Sure. But... it doesn't sound like much fun.

woolvalley 9y ago

Unity is probably the big reason why many games have native linux & macos versions today. On macos, the mac versions tend to be slower than the windows versions on the same hardware.

yesenadam 9y ago

In the chess world, everyone—every strong player in the world, it seems—uses ChessBase, which is Windows only. They used to have a Mac version years ago but it apparently was the worst software ever. It's used for studying recent master games, storing and training on your opening theory, analysing with computer engines to find new moves in the opening, studying the games of your next opponent etc. Other programs have similar functions, but it's more powerful, and no grandmaster uses anything else. Also its data format is secret, so no other software can convert to or from ChessBase format. It was created by some Germans in collaboration with Kasparov in the 1980s, and was instrumental to his unprecedented level of opening theory knowledge.