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I work in technology for an investment bank and i hear “we are not a technology company” every quarter. Ironically, the tech we develop is a major factor, if no

I work in technology for an investment bank and i hear “we are not a technology company” every quarter. Ironically, the tech we develop is a major factor, if not the only factor, for revenue. My motivation is instantly shattered when i hear that.

dopamean 9y ago
How could you say that the tech you develop might be the only factor in revenue calculations? That makes no sense to me in investment banking.
- yourapostasy 9y ago
  If tech really is the differentiator, then hearing that means tech staff won’t get commensurately compensated for delivering that decisive factor to the revenue mix. The rules of old business still applies in most organizations: the closer you are to the transactional point where money changes hands, the more you make. This many times means sales, then management, then finance, then marketing, then engineering, then back office.
  - dopamean 9y ago
    Yeah I get all that. I guess what I mean is that I just don't believe that the technology at an investment bank is responsible for all of the revenue at the bank. There's no way that's true. There are people who actually go out and do advisory deals and such which are actual people making things happen. Sure, they are enabled by technology, but those kinds of deals have been done for decades.
    - bboreham 9y ago
      Investment banks also do huge volumes of transactional business - dealing in shares, bonds, fx and derivatives of those. And all of those need hundreds of risk reports either for management or regulators. The deal-makers can get by with a spreadsheet and a BlackBerry, but the rest needs serious amounts of technology. Ideally advisory business is balanced with dealing and financing, but different houses will be slanted one way or another.
- shreyanshd 9y ago
  Tech is obviously not the only factor, but it certainly is an important one. One of the main factors in finacial services tech industry is time to market, efficienct algortihms, being compliant, handling huge bursts of volume and accuracy. Our systems ensure smooth functioning of the business across most exchanges in the world. I think the business is practically impossible without robust technology.
hamstercat 9y ago
I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible. Raise, promotion, formation, a computer made in this decade, anything really would get us that answer. Not only from my boss, but from the IT's top director in various meetings and one-on-one. I used to find it highly frustrating and unfair given that the company would cease to exists without our software, and that all new customers were acquired through new development in our software. Now that I'm older and not working there anymore, I understand that it's a culture problem and that management just didn't know any better, but I've come to accept the fact that it was a great way to cut costs and get away with it. After all, they still have many employees and manage to make more profit year after year. It just made for a very demotivating environment.
- samstave 9y ago
  >I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible This has literally always been the case with IT; they were always seen as cost-centers, not profit.... which is largely due to IT departments historically falling under the CFO.... CEO: "Keep these motherfuckers from spending money" IT: if "You want this [project] to meet your requirements of [XYZ]?, then == $2000000 CFO: "Fuck you, lets do it for half that and drop security and accessibility as a result"
  - perseusprime11 9y ago
    We actually dropped the CFO and life is beautiful.
- mmcconnell1618 9y ago
  The IT-Business Maturity model fits here. Considering IT a "cost center" that takes orders is a Level 1 organization. Level 2 is about optimizing IT processes and Level 3 is the partnership of IT and Business on strategic goals. If a financial firm is treating IT as a cost instead of partner, they have some maturing to do. http://formicio.com/index.php/archives/765 http://formicio.com/index.php/archives/765
- 9y ago
bunderbunder 9y ago
Funny, I go the other way, somewhat. Last time I was interviewing for jobs, one line I heard from a whole lot of financial companies was, "We like to think of ourselves as more of a tech company than a bank." It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that. These are companies that should be thinking of tech as a means to an end, and not an end in an of itself. Even when I worked at a major software vendor, the tech was still just a means to an end.
- lev99 9y ago
  If (good) tech companies use tech as a means to an end, and a bank wants to think of themselves as a tech company, that means that a bank thinking of themselves as a tech company doesn't necessary think of tech as an end in of itself. Companies too invested in tech tend to spend themselves into bankruptcy. Companies not invested enough in tech tend to be overcome by companies with better tech more slowly.
  - somberi 9y ago
    There could be multiple reasons for this, two of which come to my mind: 1. The person who said it may be fancying his own role as tech-heavy and might relate to his/her imagination of what tech-pure companies do. Saying, we are like Google, appeases the person saying it, and satisfies their ego. 2. Often candidates like listening to this. It may not have worked for you, but for the candidates who like hearing this, this works wonderfully. If I were to wager, this line works for more candidates than it pisses off.
- zokier 9y ago
  Its kinda fashionable to say such things, I'd think its natural that they do that especially when trying to get good tech people in (I presuming here). Bigger question i8s how far beyond the interview that sentiment truly goes.
- adrianratnapala 9y ago
  > It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that. While I can see why you find it grating, I think I would forgive them. Whatever else they are, interviews are also those awkward social moments when new acquaintances are just trying to push beyond small talk while trying to please each other. At this stage, it's normal for people to try a little too hard.
baldeagle 9y ago
I work for a bank... and I hear that, 'we will be a tech company or not a company.' All the time...
arenaninja 9y ago
Also work in tech for an investment bank but I hear that we are a tech company every quarter. And it's pure BS, no one here cares about development experience :)
WalterBright 9y ago
Maybe you can fix the problem where I want to download all my statements and transactions for the last tax year. It should be a one button push from their web site. But nope, it's always 15 minutes to a half hour tediously downloading things statement by statement, form by form, argghh.
- shreyanshd 9y ago
  I am sorry you have to spend half an hour downloading your statements. But what you’re complaining about comes under commercial banking tech, which is generally outsourced to IT consulting firms. Our tech platform is generally for institutional clients, who have systems on their end, and our systems interact with theirs to carry out business.
kbenson 9y ago
Conversely, I work for a very small company where the owner likes to fashion himself running a startup even though he's been in business over a decade. Technology features heavily in what we do, but I cringe every time he says "really, we're a technology company".
Terretta 9y ago
Come work at MUFG, largest bank in free world, $2.7T, which decided we have to be a tech company. Our head of technology strategy for Americas is on hacker news at quarter to midnight. And hiring, not just for blockchain. (See my “about” text.) Worth a chat if you’re in NYC or San Diego.
- keithwhor 9y ago
  I find this statement funny, if only because in the context of Silicon Valley culture, the statement "[x] is on hacker news at quarter to midnight" normally just means "[x] isn't doing any work at quarter to midnight." (I understand what you're going for and appreciate it, it's just interesting how social signals are interpreted given different industries / contexts.) (... and yes, me posting this comment does, in fact, mean that I'm not doing any work while I post it.)
  - Terretta 9y ago
    On the contrary, if your job depends on understanding trends in a field, read more: https://qz.com/668514/if-you-want-to-be-like-warren-buffett-and-bill-gates-adopt-their-voracious-reading-habits/ https://qz.com/668514/if-you-want-to-be-like-warren-buffett-... Being aware of HN is part of my work. In my case, we get four key dimensions of value: 1. Seeing trends early is in the job description, and a small slice of zeitgeist is here. I check here, several other self-selecting subgroup sites, a broad RSS list, white paper subscription sites, etc., and typically also read one subject matter book a day. With enough dots of info across a broad array of sources, you can see trends earlier. 2. Finding emerging tech likely able to go ‘enterprise’ is also part of my JD. That often depends on leadership. Some of those leaders are here. You can tell a lot about a company from its founders. I’ve been an extremely early customer of startups found here, years later they lead their segment and we’re already on board. Examples like Hashicorp or CoreOS come to mind. 3. Emerging debates that do matter are often here early, where threads are high quality enough to get exposure to well thought, good logic, alternative views. Being able to absorb more of those improves low data decisions. 4. You can even find talent early. Many met here have gone on to release awesome tools, join or found cool companies, get acquired by BigCos... it’s great to see talented and motivated trajectories and learn it’s not all just luck.

dopamean 9y ago

How could you say that the tech you develop might be the only factor in revenue calculations? That makes no sense to me in investment banking.

yourapostasy 9y ago
If tech really is the differentiator, then hearing that means tech staff won’t get commensurately compensated for delivering that decisive factor to the revenue mix. The rules of old business still applies in most organizations: the closer you are to the transactional point where money changes hands, the more you make. This many times means sales, then management, then finance, then marketing, then engineering, then back office.
- dopamean 9y ago
  Yeah I get all that. I guess what I mean is that I just don't believe that the technology at an investment bank is responsible for all of the revenue at the bank. There's no way that's true. There are people who actually go out and do advisory deals and such which are actual people making things happen. Sure, they are enabled by technology, but those kinds of deals have been done for decades.
  - bboreham 9y ago
    Investment banks also do huge volumes of transactional business - dealing in shares, bonds, fx and derivatives of those. And all of those need hundreds of risk reports either for management or regulators. The deal-makers can get by with a spreadsheet and a BlackBerry, but the rest needs serious amounts of technology. Ideally advisory business is balanced with dealing and financing, but different houses will be slanted one way or another.
shreyanshd 9y ago
Tech is obviously not the only factor, but it certainly is an important one. One of the main factors in finacial services tech industry is time to market, efficienct algortihms, being compliant, handling huge bursts of volume and accuracy. Our systems ensure smooth functioning of the business across most exchanges in the world. I think the business is practically impossible without robust technology.

hamstercat 9y ago

I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible. Raise, promotion, formation, a computer made in this decade, anything really would get us that answer. Not only from my boss, but from the IT's top director in various meetings and one-on-one. I used to find it highly frustrating and unfair given that the company would cease to exists without our software, and that all new customers were acquired through new development in our software. Now that I'm older and not working there anymore, I understand that it's a culture problem and that management just didn't know any better, but I've come to accept the fact that it was a great way to cut costs and get away with it. After all, they still have many employees and manage to make more profit year after year. It just made for a very demotivating environment.

samstave 9y ago
>I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible This has literally always been the case with IT; they were always seen as cost-centers, not profit.... which is largely due to IT departments historically falling under the CFO.... CEO: "Keep these motherfuckers from spending money" IT: if "You want this [project] to meet your requirements of [XYZ]?, then == $2000000 CFO: "Fuck you, lets do it for half that and drop security and accessibility as a result"
- perseusprime11 9y ago
  We actually dropped the CFO and life is beautiful.
mmcconnell1618 9y ago
The IT-Business Maturity model fits here. Considering IT a "cost center" that takes orders is a Level 1 organization. Level 2 is about optimizing IT processes and Level 3 is the partnership of IT and Business on strategic goals. If a financial firm is treating IT as a cost instead of partner, they have some maturing to do. http://formicio.com/index.php/archives/765 http://formicio.com/index.php/archives/765
9y ago

bunderbunder 9y ago

Funny, I go the other way, somewhat. Last time I was interviewing for jobs, one line I heard from a whole lot of financial companies was, "We like to think of ourselves as more of a tech company than a bank." It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that. These are companies that should be thinking of tech as a means to an end, and not an end in an of itself. Even when I worked at a major software vendor, the tech was still just a means to an end.

lev99 9y ago
If (good) tech companies use tech as a means to an end, and a bank wants to think of themselves as a tech company, that means that a bank thinking of themselves as a tech company doesn't necessary think of tech as an end in of itself. Companies too invested in tech tend to spend themselves into bankruptcy. Companies not invested enough in tech tend to be overcome by companies with better tech more slowly.
- somberi 9y ago
  There could be multiple reasons for this, two of which come to my mind: 1. The person who said it may be fancying his own role as tech-heavy and might relate to his/her imagination of what tech-pure companies do. Saying, we are like Google, appeases the person saying it, and satisfies their ego. 2. Often candidates like listening to this. It may not have worked for you, but for the candidates who like hearing this, this works wonderfully. If I were to wager, this line works for more candidates than it pisses off.
zokier 9y ago
Its kinda fashionable to say such things, I'd think its natural that they do that especially when trying to get good tech people in (I presuming here). Bigger question i8s how far beyond the interview that sentiment truly goes.
adrianratnapala 9y ago
> It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that. While I can see why you find it grating, I think I would forgive them. Whatever else they are, interviews are also those awkward social moments when new acquaintances are just trying to push beyond small talk while trying to please each other. At this stage, it's normal for people to try a little too hard.

baldeagle 9y ago

I work for a bank... and I hear that, 'we will be a tech company or not a company.' All the time...

arenaninja 9y ago

Also work in tech for an investment bank but I hear that we are a tech company every quarter. And it's pure BS, no one here cares about development experience :)

WalterBright 9y ago

Maybe you can fix the problem where I want to download all my statements and transactions for the last tax year. It should be a one button push from their web site. But nope, it's always 15 minutes to a half hour tediously downloading things statement by statement, form by form, argghh.

shreyanshd 9y ago
I am sorry you have to spend half an hour downloading your statements. But what you’re complaining about comes under commercial banking tech, which is generally outsourced to IT consulting firms. Our tech platform is generally for institutional clients, who have systems on their end, and our systems interact with theirs to carry out business.

kbenson 9y ago

Conversely, I work for a very small company where the owner likes to fashion himself running a startup even though he's been in business over a decade. Technology features heavily in what we do, but I cringe every time he says "really, we're a technology company".

Terretta 9y ago

Come work at MUFG, largest bank in free world, $2.7T, which decided we have to be a tech company. Our head of technology strategy for Americas is on hacker news at quarter to midnight. And hiring, not just for blockchain. (See my “about” text.) Worth a chat if you’re in NYC or San Diego.

keithwhor 9y ago
I find this statement funny, if only because in the context of Silicon Valley culture, the statement "[x] is on hacker news at quarter to midnight" normally just means "[x] isn't doing any work at quarter to midnight." (I understand what you're going for and appreciate it, it's just interesting how social signals are interpreted given different industries / contexts.) (... and yes, me posting this comment does, in fact, mean that I'm not doing any work while I post it.)
- Terretta 9y ago
  On the contrary, if your job depends on understanding trends in a field, read more: https://qz.com/668514/if-you-want-to-be-like-warren-buffett-and-bill-gates-adopt-their-voracious-reading-habits/ https://qz.com/668514/if-you-want-to-be-like-warren-buffett-... Being aware of HN is part of my work. In my case, we get four key dimensions of value: 1. Seeing trends early is in the job description, and a small slice of zeitgeist is here. I check here, several other self-selecting subgroup sites, a broad RSS list, white paper subscription sites, etc., and typically also read one subject matter book a day. With enough dots of info across a broad array of sources, you can see trends earlier. 2. Finding emerging tech likely able to go ‘enterprise’ is also part of my JD. That often depends on leadership. Some of those leaders are here. You can tell a lot about a company from its founders. I’ve been an extremely early customer of startups found here, years later they lead their segment and we’re already on board. Examples like Hashicorp or CoreOS come to mind. 3. Emerging debates that do matter are often here early, where threads are high quality enough to get exposure to well thought, good logic, alternative views. Being able to absorb more of those improves low data decisions. 4. You can even find talent early. Many met here have gone on to release awesome tools, join or found cool companies, get acquired by BigCos... it’s great to see talented and motivated trajectories and learn it’s not all just luck.