3 ms·

The most significant demographic change for the city was actually not the Ottoman conquest, but its destruction and rule by the Western Christians ~200 years pr

The most significant demographic change for the city was actually not the Ottoman conquest, but its destruction and rule by the Western Christians ~200 years prior. These events took the population down from about 400,000 to about 35,000. It never recovered. By the time Mehmed II came along, it was only 50,000.

ng12 9y ago
Constantinople was just one city though. Antioch, Edessa, Trebizond were all major Greek cities which were conquered by the Turks.
- richardknop 9y ago
  It’s pure speculation but if instead of sacking Constantinople and killing all of those people West made an alliance with East, Byzantine Empire could have survived, albeit losing substantial territories in the East. The situation of Eastern Romans was bad with them losing a lot of their eastern provinces but they still had some fight left in them.
  - ng12 9y ago
    I've thought about that a lot too. It's possible, but I think that thread failed when the re-conquered cities were turned into the Crusader States rather than being returned to Greek control. If anything, I feel like the Siege if Vienna would have happened at the walls of Constantinople instead and history would be more or less unchanged.
  - jcranmer 9y ago
    The Byzantine Empire was faced with a conundrum. It needed political allies and military support to be able to see off the threats of the Seljuks, then the Mongols, and finally the Ottomans. The major Latin Christendom powers were hesitant to give that kind of consistent alliance to the heretical Orthodox/Catholic split, and many Byzantine emperors did seriously consider the idea of giving up the Orthodox to obtain that support. However, the emperors who did so faced the severe wrath of their core population, driving rebellions instead. The Byzantines were effectively forced into a mode where they had to choose between internal and external security, which is a large factor of their terminal decline. By the Fourth Crusade, the Empire was pretty much in a state where the surrounding powers had more reason to wait to pick at its corpse than to help it survive.
- richardknop 9y ago
  I can’t reply to your reply for some reason :P You mentioned Siege of Vienna. Remember that it eventually failed and it culminated with Battle of Vienna when Ottomans were completely defeated and soon after driven out of Europe. I would have thought that had the battle happened outside Constantinople instead of Vienna the history would have been changed completely. Vast parts of Ottoman Empire would probably be part of EU now.

ng12 9y ago

Constantinople was just one city though. Antioch, Edessa, Trebizond were all major Greek cities which were conquered by the Turks.

richardknop 9y ago
It’s pure speculation but if instead of sacking Constantinople and killing all of those people West made an alliance with East, Byzantine Empire could have survived, albeit losing substantial territories in the East. The situation of Eastern Romans was bad with them losing a lot of their eastern provinces but they still had some fight left in them.
- ng12 9y ago
  I've thought about that a lot too. It's possible, but I think that thread failed when the re-conquered cities were turned into the Crusader States rather than being returned to Greek control. If anything, I feel like the Siege if Vienna would have happened at the walls of Constantinople instead and history would be more or less unchanged.
- jcranmer 9y ago
  The Byzantine Empire was faced with a conundrum. It needed political allies and military support to be able to see off the threats of the Seljuks, then the Mongols, and finally the Ottomans. The major Latin Christendom powers were hesitant to give that kind of consistent alliance to the heretical Orthodox/Catholic split, and many Byzantine emperors did seriously consider the idea of giving up the Orthodox to obtain that support. However, the emperors who did so faced the severe wrath of their core population, driving rebellions instead. The Byzantines were effectively forced into a mode where they had to choose between internal and external security, which is a large factor of their terminal decline. By the Fourth Crusade, the Empire was pretty much in a state where the surrounding powers had more reason to wait to pick at its corpse than to help it survive.
richardknop 9y ago
I can’t reply to your reply for some reason :P You mentioned Siege of Vienna. Remember that it eventually failed and it culminated with Battle of Vienna when Ottomans were completely defeated and soon after driven out of Europe. I would have thought that had the battle happened outside Constantinople instead of Vienna the history would have been changed completely. Vast parts of Ottoman Empire would probably be part of EU now.