9 ms·
How did non US citizen founders funded by YC get allowed to work in the US?
Hi, first time posting here.
I've been thinking about applying to YC but the thing is that I am not a US citizen. I know I can travel to the US to do busines (attending meetings and such) done so fo my current employer. But how about starting a company and writing code?
I've read somewhere that YC has funded startups with non US citizen founders so it should be possible somehow. If there are any YC funded startups founded by non US citizens reading this (or anyone else that knows anything about this), how did you do it?
Note that I do not have a green card or visa or anything like that.
Cheers
- moondowner 16y agoI was planning to work for a company in the USA via Faculty (Java & Database stuff), for 4 months - during the summer, and as I was reading, the applicant gets a J-1 visa (or it was J-2, I can't recall now), but I got another offer so I didn't go. My point is, J-1 & J-2 are visas for students, teachers, business trainees, certain specialists, and more... If YC wants you, maybe you're eligible for this kind of visa.
- vgurgov 16y agoI am not YC founder, so i dont know how YC do that. But technically everyone can come to US, register a company and work for it. Its YOUR company, so no prob here. Although you might need to come back to your country every 6 months or so. Edit: Surprised to see so many comments and and downvotes from "experts" for that. Get business/tourist (b1/b2). You are not working you are considering investing in US- one of the simples rules to remember when crossing border- and there are many others.
- eru 16y agoReally? It's sound like this would make it possible to work every job, by sub-contracting to your `company'.
- arnorhs 16y agoEveryone can register a company? But you still need a special VISA to work. That's remarkable.
- duke_sam 16y agoThere is a visa (It's one of the E visas) for people bringing capital into the states but you it's not a trivial amount and you need to prove that you will employ a certain number of Americans.
- Sukotto 16y agoIt's called "Treaty Investing" http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1273.html http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1273.html
- eduardoflores 16y agoInfo on the E1 (trader) and E2 (investor) on the US Embassy in Mexico http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/evisas_E.html http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/evisas_E.html Highlights for the investor visa: - The investor must be coming to the United States solely to develop and direct the enterprise - The investment must be substantial. It must be sufficient to ensure the successful operation of the enterprise - must have the capacity to generate significantly more income than just enough to provide a living to the investor and his or her family, or it must have a significant economic impact in the United States I'm not sure if a YC funded founder would be elegible, but seems hard
- mdda 16y agoI've been running my own business in the US on an E-2 visa for the last 12 years. The minimum recommended initial investment is of the order of $100,000 - and a majority the E-2 company must be owned by citizens of the non-US 'treaty country'. Rough guide to application : 0.5-1.0 inch thick.
- dotBen 16y agoYou have to bring $100,000 of your own personal money into the company (so investment from 3rd party doesn't count). You also have to maintain control of your company, ie you can never give away more than 50% of the equity in the company - and that will be prohibitive when seeking investment. The company is thus limited in it's ability to fundraise above a certain point and an exit is impossible without the founder leaving the country.
- davidw 16y agoTourist visas are 3 months, and are for tourism, not for working for your company. I do think that it's possible to register a company, but don't know how that works out for non-US people.
- vgurgov 16y agono b1/b2 is for 6 m and can be extended for another 6. visa waiver is for 3m (its EU can come without any visa)
- vladd 16y agothis is incorrect information. There are lots of countries in EU that still require visa. EU is trying to make US treat it as a single entity ( http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=114061 http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=114061 ) but for the last 4 years they've pretty much failed to do so.
- davidw 16y agoSheez, what's with the "pile on" downvoting. If he's wrong, vote him down to 0 or -1 and leave it at that.
- vgurgov 16y agoThx, but i dont really care about my carma. I simply cant be wrong here because i experienced this myself and know like 10 friends doing such things with zero probs. Heck even YC says that visa isnt a big deal for their companies. Guess most of downvotes coming from lazy hackers who like to count visa issues as excuse for their own laziness.
- siong1987 16y agothis is really interesting. do you mind to elaborate more? i am Teng Siong Ong from GraffitiGeo(YC S2009). in fact, visa is the worst problem that many YC international founders face now. this will really help if you could share your experience with all of us.
- davidw 16y ago> zero problems Because they haven't been caught, or because what they're doing is legitimate?
- dotBen 16y agoI too know a ton of friends who are doing it with zero probs. I also know for a fact they are working illegally.
- vgurgov 16y agoi know that this will get a ton of downvotes, but problem with getting entrepreneur visa in US is pretty much overvalued! Get this: Most skilled ppl can get this or other solution pretty easy and legal after doing some research in the field. So dont worry about getting a visa, better worry about building a great product!!
- georgecmu 16y agoI think you'd see a lot more upvotes if you gave an explicit description of how "everyone can come to US, register a company and work for it", instead of making this empty (and to the best knowledge of most people that had to deal with the US immigration, incorrect) statement.
- eru 16y agoI hope you will get some good answers. Just a short note: Please do not include HTML-tags in your posts. Thanks!
- amirmc 16y agoI suspect that while the non-US teams are at YC, some of them are technically 'tourists' (i.e just on holiday). They don't need a visa to enter the country so it's a case of hear-no-evil, see-no-evil. If they decide to stay in the US after YC, then they have to deal with the nightmare of immigration and get themselves proper work permits. For those who need a tourist visa to even enter the US, I have no idea.
- wheels 16y ago"Seeking investment" is a valid reason to enter the US from visa waiver countries. My (German) co-founder used that when entering for YC and had no problems. It's also a perfectly reasonable simplification of what happens at YC.
- richardhenry 16y agoIt's perfectly legal to enter the U.S. for business reasons, including meetings, conferences or even to raise funding. You're not allowed to become employed by a U.S. corporation, but you can certainly consult for them and do on-site work. I'm a Brit, and I've done all of the above several times under the VWP without border control even batting an eyelid.
- diehell 16y agoDoes YC consider funding an idea for a startup with non-US resident founders?
- lewstherin 16y agoIt says so on their faq page which is why I have applied :)
- kgthegreat 16y agoThis site has some info http://startupvisa.com/about/ http://startupvisa.com/about/
- yardie 16y agoOkay, first things first. Apply for a greencard. I know it's a long process, it's expensive, and it's very invasive but do this first. People assume they don't qualify and don't even bother asking. But the US still has the highest immigration of all countries, only the UK is a distant 2nd. So obviously, people are getting in everyday. Now, contact the US embassy in your country. Get all your paperwork together, set an appointment, pay the fees, and wait. Depending on the country you are coming from can be the difference between success and failure. Each country has quotas and some are filled immediately (Mexico, for example) and some go unmet (Switzerland, because no one ever leaves switzerland) So do all the paperwork, fill in the envelope and mail it, and wait. That's all you really can do.
- DirtyAndy 16y agoActually depending on where you are from you can also apply for the Greencard Lottery. Free way to get a Greencard. http://www.dvlottery.state.gov/ http://www.dvlottery.state.gov/
- ovi256 16y agoApplying to the Greencard lottery puts you on some kind of blacklist for US visas. Happened to a friend from Romania years ago. No idea if this is official policy or not, but he always got his visas refused afterwards, even after careful preparation. Hope things have changes.
- lionhearted 16y agoDoesn't surprise me - they refuse you for a visa if they have any suspicion that you're trying to immigrate. One time I was entering London and the customs guy was in a bad mood and decided to grill me. I made the mistake of saying I had a girlfriend in London that I was seeing as part of the trip - after that I got extensive questioning. Guy was halfway in a bad mood, but halfway having a girlfriend might be reason to immigrate in his eyes. Nowdays regardless of what I'm doing, I won't say anything that'd remotely indicate that I might ever want to live in any country I'm visiting, lest I get in more questioning and hassle. And I'm an American, mind you, not exactly the country that people get the most skeptical screening process from. If I was from a Baltic country or developing country, I'd try to casually work into conversation that I had serious commitments back home - good job, mortgage, graduate studies, serious relationship, things like that. (Actually, now that I think about it, that's what finally got me through that London questioning - when I mentioned I had to be back in Boston for my studies starting in late August, it was around July at the time IIRC, roughly five years ago)
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- DirtyAndy 16y agoI've also been interested in how they get around this. Technically on a business tourist visa (forgotten what it is called, but if you are from the right country you just tick a box on your way in) I think you are allowed to attend meetings and tradeshows. From an IT perspective I am pretty sure you are able to do analysis if the aim is then go back to your home country and do development. But I cannot see how a startup can go there and actively start a business (although I guess you could argue it is similar to sitting around a pool on holiday checking a blackberry - big argument, but there is a case there - it isn't like you are an employee of anyone there). Entering the US is always a bit painful, but I think when you come from a country that they don't have a major overstayer problem with then you are probably OK. I'd be interested in how people from countries that don't qualify for visa waiver get on.
- vgurgov 16y agoits called b1/b2 and even if you are from country that qualify for waiver you should get it. it gives you 6m+6m instead of 3month and more.
- bombs 16y agoAdioso (YC W09), originally Australian, "re-incorporated" in the US. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1605659 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1605659
- tomhoward 16y agoThis doesn't allow us to work in the US. We still don't have working visas, and we spend most of our time back in Australia, coming and going from the US on Visa Waiver for meetings etc.
- jedwhite 16y agoHey Tom, too long between nights out on Russian Hill :) I can't remember if we talked about it, but you should look at the E3 visa - no cost for the company, and relatively straightforward process at the US Consulate in Sydney. The main gotchas are that you need to show either education or equivalent experience in a specialised field related to the position you list for, get a Condition of Labour Application completed, and be paid the going market rate for the position. It's a special visa for Australians under the US-AUS free trade agreement, and the number of people who apply each year is way under the quote. I was told the Melbourne Consulate isn't so straightforward, so do through Sydney. In the interview they were ok with us basically taking an australian company and expanding it to the US so long as you are upfront about what you're doing. If you can find a US board member and have US shareholders then that seems to count in the interview.
- suthakamal 16y agoIf you enter the US on a B2 business visitor visa, after being in the country for 60 days you can petition in writing for an Adjustment of Status to change your visa to another type. You can remain in the US under the terms of the B2 until you get a reply to your petition, even if it is after the 90 day expiration of the B2. Note that the above is true for canadians. Ymmv for other nationalities.
- dotBen 16y agoI don't think this is correct. NEVER stay in the US longer than the duration of your visa on your i94 under ANY circumstances. Even if it's day 89 and the airport is closed for bad weather you must drive to the border (or whatever) to leave otherwise next time you come back into the country it will be picked up and you can get deported + bared from entering US. PLEASE get legal advice if this is your situation. (source: I'm a foreign national working in US on a visa, having spent a lot of time + money with my visa lawyer on this issue. I also have a startup investor friend who went over his visa duration and is barred from entering the US again.)
- suthakamal 16y agoIf you overstay your visa, then you're absolutely right, you're in for a world of trouble. However, ONCE you have entered the US on a B2, you can file an I-539 to permit you to extend your stay and apply to change your status to another class of visa. As it happens, this is precisely the process I've gone through to go from B2 -> TN-1. That said: Ben's right that you should seek legal counsel from an immigration attorney on all things related to the visa process.
- dotBen 16y agoSo I have a TN (as it happens). If you are looking to get a TN as a Canadian citizen (rather than Mexican, different rules apply for them) you can actually apply for a TN at any airport (not just via Canada). This is a little known fact. The advice given to me was just to take a trip somewhere and come back into the country to get the TN rather than apply for an AoS with the DHS (which can take ages to process - they are not really incentivized to process it with a short turnover). I got my most recent TN at SFO in secondary checking, it was trivial (assuming you qualify + your paperwork is in order, etc).
- hippich 16y agonon residents can open company in most if not all states. once entity is created - anyone can fund it. you just can't be hired by this company and be US resident in the same time. But you can be on US territory to sign contracts, or you can work for company while being out of US land. but after going through work visa i can say it's doable, but really complex if you are not from "good" country, like canada, australia, etc. =)
- bluishgreen 16y agoI am an Indian on H1B Visa, possibly the worst country to be from relative to the US Immigration System. An immigration lawyer told me that I can register a company but I cannot work for it. But later when I find U.S investors who will own equity in my company I can ask them to sponsor the transfer of my H1B Visa to my own company. This doesn't make me thrilled, but hey - it is something. Sitting on my hands is killing me, so I am moonlighting in the hopes that the lawyer is right, and that I can find investment using only my moonlighting efforts. If anyone knows better please let me know.
- MediaSquirrel 16y agotalk to a different lawyer. Try these dudes: Leon Hazany 310-500-5052 leon@hazanylaw.com Robert Goodman 914-935-0015 rig@rigoodmanlaw.com http://www.rigoodmanlaw.com/ http://www.rigoodmanlaw.com/ Leon is based in LA and was very helpful when i spoke w him about my co-founder. Robert is based in NYC and was particularly knowledgeable about tech and immigration. also, fyi, ALWAYS TALK TO MULTIPLE LAWYERS, especially when one does not give you a satisfactory response. Immigration is complex and many are bleeding heart save-the-poor types who do not understand the biz/startup side of the equation at all. Every lawyer will give you 30-60min of their time on the phone for free. Multiply that by the number of lawyers in the world and you can get A LOT of legal advice for free. Good luck!
- bluishgreen 16y agoThank you MediaSquirrel. I sure will talk to other lawyers. But based on your talks you find the above scenario not feasible?
- angkec 16y agoI've also talked to some immigration lawyers, and that seems to be the only route that can get you 6 years in the u.s. The other route maybe graduate from a u.s university and use your 29-month opt period (you do have to extended it) to work for you own u.s registered company. Since opt authorization is done by the school you graduate from, it should be much easier to do than issuing an h1b for yourself. Just my 2 cents,
- alain94040 16y agoI have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. 1. 90% of the answers in this thread are bad advice. Some of it really bad. A lot of it just misleading, bogus or exaggerated (on HN, it's bad form to criticize others, but when it comes to life-altering advice such as here, I can't let it stand). 2. It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors. 3. The best lawyer site I have ever seen is http://usvisanews.com http://usvisanews.com. Read this weekly for 6 months, then you'll start having an idea of how it works A few facts: a. anybody can incorporate a US corporation. You don't even have to set foot in the US, by the way, to do so. b. the main issue is living in the US while having some kind of activity for a company. It's usually defined as work, and that's when you must be very careful and have the right status.
- TotlolRon 16y ago> I have been on 6 different visas, over 15 years, I have quite a bit of experience in the matter. > It's too complicated to explain in a paragraph. It depends on too many factors. A similar number of visa types over similar number of years and I would go a step further and say that there is no formal solution to your problem. The US immigration system can't handle YC type rhythm and structures. You'll have to assume you have two operations to run - your startup and your status. You'll have to get knowledgeable and creative in both. Also, as you will work under the assumption that your start-up may fail, you should also work under the assumption that your status will fail and you will have to go back to your home country. Succeeding in both operations is possible, but very hard. Me think the immigration operation is harder.... Good luck.
- sprovoost 16y agoI would like to focus on the first 89 days (if I make it to YC 2011 winter). I don't mind running a "status" operation during those initial three months. I can also live with the possibility that I will have to run my company from The Netherlands for a while (months, years, forever) after that. What I can't live with is the chance of accidentally messing with immigration law during those three months. The big question then is: does Y combinator fall under the restrictions of the Visa Waiver Program? I've heard people claim the whole Y-Combinator program can be seen as "seeking investment", but there's also a coding aspect to it. My plan would be to work as a single founder, doing part of the work myself and hiring others outside the USA through Elance.
- mgh2 16y agoWhat about the EB-5 visa? (The Entrepreneur's Visa) The specifics of the visa are: 1. Each year 10,000 entrepreneurs allowed into the US. 2. The entrepreneur has to attract investment of 1 million. 3. In which after he attains this, he is granted with a 2 year period of 'probation'. 4. In these 2 years, he has to create at least 10 full time American jobs and make a revenue or attract an additional 1 million dollars. 5. If this is achieved, he will be granted a green card. If not, he has to go back. So my questions are: A. I know it seems impossible, but how many foreign entrepreneurs actually can achieve this? Are there numbers of how many get this type of visa each year? B. When is the EB-6 visa coming out? (Same visa but only with 1/2 requirements)
- mgh2 16y agoFor more info go to: http://startupvisa.com/ http://startupvisa.com/
- impeachgod 16y agoSo thus we have a good reason to have more women founders - immigrant hacker-startup guys are usually male. Thus, they can just marry their US-citizen startup cofounders.
- dotBen 16y agoOr we all push for marriage equality so that LGBT folks can marry too, with full federal recognition including immigration status for the other partner.
- kareemm 16y agoSurprised nobody has mentioned the O-1 visa for "aliens of extraordinary ability": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-1_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-1_visa AFAIK, a couple of non-US citizens have gotten them to work in the US on YC (the Auctomatic guys). I know DHH was on one to work for 37S.
- fbnt 16y agoI have a slightly different question: considering I have no interest in emigrating to the States, what if my hypothetical startup gets funded by YC or any other american early stage venture firm? Would I be able to incorporate in US and pay taxes accordingly? Can I keep working from my home country? What are the real, tangible advantages of running your team in US, other then the favorable startup environment you can get in places such as the Valley/SF? Are investors much less inclined to funding foreign teams, does it makes it more troublesome? Sorry for the loads of questions, but sometimes I fail at understanding why so many people think is a must to go to the states to get a startup off the ground. And thanks to anyone who will take the time to answer.
- dotBen 16y agoThis probably becomes off-topic to this OP, but the whole point of YC is the resources and network you get accepted into. And you need to be here for that. Also, if the idea is to obtain funding during/after the YC program you will find that VCs will rarely invest in distant companies. If you don't want to be here for that, even for the duration of the program, (and really, with the aim of moving here) then YC is probably not for you - but perhaps there is a similar program locally to you? (NB: I'm not connected with, nor work for, YC)
- marcamillion 16y agoI lived in the US for 7 years, did both degrees there and worked in between. Thoroughly familiar with the immigration system. The short answer is, without making a 'large' investment (i.e. $500K min) + showing that you can provide at least 10 jobs in 2 years - you have a steep climb to be able to stay in the US. That being said, anyone can register a company - from any country. You can have the company in the US, register a bank account, get a tax ID, pay taxes, etc....but unless you are doing a certain amount of business and creating at least 10 jobs, you can't actually live here. People will say you can register a company on a student visa (F1), that's BS. Don't do it. You might not get caught immediately, but it violates the intent of the student visa - which is a 'non-immigrant student visa'. i.e. you have no intention of staying in the US. You are just there to work. The same applies to H1-B, and other work visas. All of those visas are non-immigrant visas, which means you don't intend to migrate to the US permanently. Some people have successfully started a company on F1, but if you ever get audited by the US Immigration service, there is a very high probability that you will get deported. All of that being said, don't worry about it. You can travel to the US on a visitors visa, or a business visa, for a few months (for e.g. to participate in YC), and then go home - while still having your company operating in the US. Once you are big enough, if you sell to a large company, like Facebook or Google or something, they can do an internal transfer (I believe it is a J-visa). Also, there are paths to a green card (family, marriage, or investment) that given your situation the best would probably be investment once your company grows enough for you to open an office in the US. All of that being said, make sure to see an immigration attorney and get good advice. But more importantly, read the various requirements for yourself - from the links others have posted here. Some attorneys might tell you they can get you a green card through an F1 or H1-B....make sure you know your stuff, and be suspicious. I have many friends that have told me that they have spoken to attorneys that assure them they can start a company on an F1 visa. I have spent hundreds of dollars and visited at least 4 different attorneys (including a past immigration judge) and they all tell me the same thing. By doing that, you violate the intent of the law.
- ehsanul 16y agoAbout starting a business on F1: you can do it if you're on OPT and got your EAD card. Being self-employed is noted as one way to keep your status as an F1 with OPT (as 90 days unemployment means you're out of status), besides getting a job or volunteering. I'm doing that now myself, after talking to my international student advisors and a couple lawyers. Thing is, the business MUST be in a field related to what you studied on your F1 visa, which is severely limiting. As for the green card, DO NOT apply for it during your F1, as that's a non-immigrant single-intent visa. Your purpose is to study and leave. However, the H1-B has a well-established route to a green card (after you work for 6 years or something), as it is a dual-intent visa. I'm not sure about particulars, but I know many go through this route successfully. No reason to be suspicious about this if a lawyer mentions it.
- switch 16y agoapply for a hsmp visa in UK or canadian permanent residence. Most of the advice in this thread - except for the first two - alain and tololRon - is very very dangerous - it'll get you barred from US forever if you try some of the stunts recommended.