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Tim Ferris on the same issue: > Silicon Valley also has an insidious infection that is spreading -- a peculiar form of McCarthyism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wi

Tim Ferris on the same issue: > Silicon Valley also has an insidious infection that is spreading -- a peculiar form of McCarthyism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism) masquerading as liberal open-mindedness. I'm as socially liberal as you get, and I find it nauseating how many topics or dissenting opinions are simply out-of-bounds in Silicon Valley. These days, people with real jobs (unlike me) are risking their careers to even challenge collective delusions in SF. Isn't this supposed to be where people change the world by challenging the consensus reality? By seeing the hidden realities behind the facades? That's the whole reason I traveled west and started over in the Bay Area. Now, more and more, I feel like it's a Russian nesting doll of facades -- Washington DC with fewer neck ties, where people openly lie to one another out of fear of losing their jobs or being publicly crucified. It's weird, unsettling, and, frankly, really dangerous. There's way too much power here for politeness to be sustainable. If no one feels they can say "Hey, I know it makes everyone uncomfortable, but I think there's a leak in the fuel rods in this nuclear submarine..." we're headed for big trouble. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7erct8/i_am_tim_ferriss_host_of_the_tim_ferriss_show_and/dq6zrh1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7erct8/i_am_tim_ferri... I've witnessed this first hand, and alongside the congestion and housing problems that no one wants to handle, it was a big reason I decided to leave the Bay Area for good.

deleted 9y ago
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matt4077 9y ago
Funny, considering Tim Ferris himself is superficial marketing masquerading as profound insight. Really: the guy hasn't answered a single sentence that isn't either obvious, unactionable, or wrong.
overthemoon 9y ago
What topics, exactly, are so taboo? McCarthyism was about a specific ideology. And, mind you, people were getting dragged into court over it, which Ferris is certainly not at risk of. In fact, this is in a thread about a guy who shut a media outlet down. What is Ferris worried that he can't talk about?
- jbooth 9y ago
  There are a tiny minority of liberals who, rather than embracing breaking down barriers and a hunky-dory co-existence like the rest of us, erect barriers of purity and constantly call people out. They're annoying. On the other hand, that's the dominant mode for the entire right half of the spectrum so take their complaints with a grain of salt. And who gives the above-mentioned annoying liberals their biggest platform? Right wing media. Gotta feed the wurlitzer. It's not a "differing and diverse political opinion" to think people of color and women are inherently less worthy, it's just racist/sexist.
  - sgift 9y ago
    > It's not a "differing and diverse political opinion" to think people of color and women are inherently less worthy, it's just racist/sexist. It actually is both, which neatly answers the "why are you against diverse political opinions": Saying something is 'just' an 'opinion' doesn't absolve it from being racist/sexist.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Still no one is willing to name the beliefs that 'you just can't say.' In McCarthyism it was communist/socialist beliefs. What political beliefs can't you espouse in public without being shunned? For Thiel it's probably the pro-authoritarian/pseudo-monarchist beliefs of the neo-reaction guys he runs around with. Gotta be honest, I don't mind those being shunned.
    - ViktorV 9y ago
      You just named some of the beliefs that you can't say. Basically you agree with Thiel. One more thing to note: you've called the guy "pro-authoritarian/pseudo-monarchist". Is this how he describes himself ( I guess no )? I grew up in a country with strong far-right culture. Nazis are calling themselves nazis.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
        Peter Thiel himself doesn't describe himself that way but the people he pays attention to explicitly do. Here: Yarvin told Yiannopoulos that he had been “coaching Thiel.” “Peter needs guidance on politics for sure,” Yiannopoulos responded. “Less than you might think!” Yarvin wrote back. “I watched the election at his house, I think my hangover lasted into Tuesday. He’s fully enlightened, just plays it very carefully.” and then combine that with the fact that Yarvin calls himself a Jacobite and you've got the monarchy/authoritarian connection. The Thiel thing goes a whole lot deeper than Damore or some of the other common examples of "SJW" pushback.
131012 9y ago
I'd add that in this celebration of diversity, SF has become intelorant toward poverty. Being poor is now almost impossible due to astronomic rent. I might be wrong, but I assume you find very few working class people having anything to say about the tech utopia being built. Unless you talk to your uber driver once in a while.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  > Being poor is now almost impossible due to astronomic rent. Did you mean to say "Being poor is now almost assured due to astronomic rent"?
  - unclebucknasty 9y ago
    I think GP meant that subsisting as a poor person is impossible (or nearly so), due to astronomic rents.
    - 131012 9y ago
      The comment is interesting, because it proposes that an engineer with a 100k salary is now taught as somewhat poor. Hence the impossibility of being working class poor. I'm from a G7 country and still, 100k a year is understood here as being rich. Call it the Silicon Valley distortion maybe?
      - sjg007 9y ago
        A family of 4 living in San Mateo county making $105k is considered low income by HUD.
        RickJWagner 9y ago
        Wow.
- verylittlemeat 9y ago
  Counter intuitively I think we might be entering a time when being poor in SF is a boon. With all the wealth going around many people feel ashamed of the obvious disparity of their success and the truly destitute. This could lead to a competition of virtue signaling among the SF wealthy to "give back" to the poor. Kind of like how you see the rich always donating to needy charities or celebrities at canned food drives. Of course, helping the poor will just be social lip service but it will lead to tangible resources for the destitute.
soneca 9y ago
I was kind of skeptical of this lack of tolerance to conservative view was as described by conservatives. Living outside of Silicon Valley (and USA) and being more aligned with this "socially liberal" thinking myself, it seemed conservatives defensive attitude as they were losing space. But then I read this "Ask A Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo" (http://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-on-the-google-memo/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-o...) and the one point most of them seems to agree with the memo is that there is this lack of tolerance to conservative thinking. I still believe there is a lot of good being done by people labeled "social justice warriors" and the so-called "political correctness" is undoubtedly a net good to the world. But I now also think that this lack of tolerance is a real danger that must be fought by the people that are in the same side of the political spectrum that is perpetuating this intolerance (i.e. the more left-wing socially liberal). As I consider to be part of this group, in this particular dimension, I think we should be listening carefully with open minds and hearts to these accusations from people at the more conservative side.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  This is a well written post from a valid perspective. People wondering where the intolerance is should note that this comment is greyed out as I type this. Disagreeing is fine. But it disappoints me when people silently downvote a reasonable comment.
  - dang 9y ago
    Besides its being off topic, one reason the site guidelines ask you not to comment on voting is that it takes time for the community's reaction to settle. Hasty downvotes get corrected by fair-minded users who give corrective upvotes. The comment you're talking about is now well into positive territory. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      Well, the thread was partly a metathread about our culture, so I don't consider it off topic. It seemed particularly tangible and demonstrative in a thread with a lot of subjective back and forth. And maybe the comment would have been upvoted on its own. Maybe not. It's hard to draw a conclusion either way after the fact. I just did what seemed to be the right thing at the time. Anonymously upvoting and shaking my head didn't seem enough.
unclebucknasty 9y ago
Is it ironic that we are having a discussion about diversity of thought in SV on an SV-based platform that says if you don't agree with something, then you should downvote it into oblivion such that fewer people will see it? That should be your response versus asking questions and engaging in actual thoughtful discussion? Does that promote tolerance and diversity of thought? Or does it reinforce the notion that we should stick our fingers in our ears and balkanize ourselves in the face of ideas we don't like? And, worse actively work to prevent others from seeing those ideas?
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  Ok, I'll answer. Yes. It is ironic.
- pacificleo11 9y ago
  Very valid point. surprisingly i never thought of it this way. Thank You
  - unclebucknasty 9y ago
    :) you're welcome.
sjg007 9y ago
The coastal elite are pro-housing except in their own backyard. Unfortunately for them, there are too many renters/millennials now so that the tide will turn if they can organize effectively.
- primewave 9y ago
  They have. Here: https://www.facebook.com/BARentersFed/ https://www.facebook.com/BARentersFed/
jbob2000 9y ago
In my opinion, this is what happens when things become "Serious Business". Silicon Valley and its individuals have become so powerful and wealthy that the stakes are insanely high. Imagine working your way up from the middle class to fabulous riches. Cars, houses, 5 star travel. You have the american dream, things are good. Now people are coming in and challenging you. The culture of "challenge everything" is a huge risk to your empire, your comfortable life is at risk. Quick! Consume the challengers or burn them at the stake! That's why DC is like this; they have power over an entire country (arguably the world, too). Everyone there needs to be incredibly careful, there's 1000 people waiting to eat them alive and take their job/power. If you want an environment where people challenge things, go where nobody is looking. Go somewhere that the MBAs and C-levels have given up. Those are the places where nothing matters, so you are free to make mistakes and break as much as possible; you can't do any worse than what's already there.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  You mean like start ups should be? (The about only thing that is supposed to matter there is time and product market fit.)
muzz 9y ago
This is the highest rated comment, yet it is not a direct response to the article but rather about something else that it links to.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

matt4077 9y ago

Funny, considering Tim Ferris himself is superficial marketing masquerading as profound insight. Really: the guy hasn't answered a single sentence that isn't either obvious, unactionable, or wrong.

overthemoon 9y ago

What topics, exactly, are so taboo? McCarthyism was about a specific ideology. And, mind you, people were getting dragged into court over it, which Ferris is certainly not at risk of. In fact, this is in a thread about a guy who shut a media outlet down. What is Ferris worried that he can't talk about?

jbooth 9y ago
There are a tiny minority of liberals who, rather than embracing breaking down barriers and a hunky-dory co-existence like the rest of us, erect barriers of purity and constantly call people out. They're annoying. On the other hand, that's the dominant mode for the entire right half of the spectrum so take their complaints with a grain of salt. And who gives the above-mentioned annoying liberals their biggest platform? Right wing media. Gotta feed the wurlitzer. It's not a "differing and diverse political opinion" to think people of color and women are inherently less worthy, it's just racist/sexist.
- sgift 9y ago
  > It's not a "differing and diverse political opinion" to think people of color and women are inherently less worthy, it's just racist/sexist. It actually is both, which neatly answers the "why are you against diverse political opinions": Saying something is 'just' an 'opinion' doesn't absolve it from being racist/sexist.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Still no one is willing to name the beliefs that 'you just can't say.' In McCarthyism it was communist/socialist beliefs. What political beliefs can't you espouse in public without being shunned? For Thiel it's probably the pro-authoritarian/pseudo-monarchist beliefs of the neo-reaction guys he runs around with. Gotta be honest, I don't mind those being shunned.
  - ViktorV 9y ago
    You just named some of the beliefs that you can't say. Basically you agree with Thiel. One more thing to note: you've called the guy "pro-authoritarian/pseudo-monarchist". Is this how he describes himself ( I guess no )? I grew up in a country with strong far-right culture. Nazis are calling themselves nazis.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      Peter Thiel himself doesn't describe himself that way but the people he pays attention to explicitly do. Here: Yarvin told Yiannopoulos that he had been “coaching Thiel.” “Peter needs guidance on politics for sure,” Yiannopoulos responded. “Less than you might think!” Yarvin wrote back. “I watched the election at his house, I think my hangover lasted into Tuesday. He’s fully enlightened, just plays it very carefully.” and then combine that with the fact that Yarvin calls himself a Jacobite and you've got the monarchy/authoritarian connection. The Thiel thing goes a whole lot deeper than Damore or some of the other common examples of "SJW" pushback.

131012 9y ago

I'd add that in this celebration of diversity, SF has become intelorant toward poverty. Being poor is now almost impossible due to astronomic rent. I might be wrong, but I assume you find very few working class people having anything to say about the tech utopia being built. Unless you talk to your uber driver once in a while.

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
> Being poor is now almost impossible due to astronomic rent. Did you mean to say "Being poor is now almost assured due to astronomic rent"?
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  I think GP meant that subsisting as a poor person is impossible (or nearly so), due to astronomic rents.
  - 131012 9y ago
    The comment is interesting, because it proposes that an engineer with a 100k salary is now taught as somewhat poor. Hence the impossibility of being working class poor. I'm from a G7 country and still, 100k a year is understood here as being rich. Call it the Silicon Valley distortion maybe?
    - sjg007 9y ago
      A family of 4 living in San Mateo county making $105k is considered low income by HUD.
      - RickJWagner 9y ago
        Wow.
verylittlemeat 9y ago
Counter intuitively I think we might be entering a time when being poor in SF is a boon. With all the wealth going around many people feel ashamed of the obvious disparity of their success and the truly destitute. This could lead to a competition of virtue signaling among the SF wealthy to "give back" to the poor. Kind of like how you see the rich always donating to needy charities or celebrities at canned food drives. Of course, helping the poor will just be social lip service but it will lead to tangible resources for the destitute.

soneca 9y ago

I was kind of skeptical of this lack of tolerance to conservative view was as described by conservatives. Living outside of Silicon Valley (and USA) and being more aligned with this "socially liberal" thinking myself, it seemed conservatives defensive attitude as they were losing space. But then I read this "Ask A Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo" (http://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-on-the-google-memo/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-o...) and the one point most of them seems to agree with the memo is that there is this lack of tolerance to conservative thinking. I still believe there is a lot of good being done by people labeled "social justice warriors" and the so-called "political correctness" is undoubtedly a net good to the world. But I now also think that this lack of tolerance is a real danger that must be fought by the people that are in the same side of the political spectrum that is perpetuating this intolerance (i.e. the more left-wing socially liberal). As I consider to be part of this group, in this particular dimension, I think we should be listening carefully with open minds and hearts to these accusations from people at the more conservative side.

humanrebar 9y ago
This is a well written post from a valid perspective. People wondering where the intolerance is should note that this comment is greyed out as I type this. Disagreeing is fine. But it disappoints me when people silently downvote a reasonable comment.
- dang 9y ago
  Besides its being off topic, one reason the site guidelines ask you not to comment on voting is that it takes time for the community's reaction to settle. Hasty downvotes get corrected by fair-minded users who give corrective upvotes. The comment you're talking about is now well into positive territory. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    Well, the thread was partly a metathread about our culture, so I don't consider it off topic. It seemed particularly tangible and demonstrative in a thread with a lot of subjective back and forth. And maybe the comment would have been upvoted on its own. Maybe not. It's hard to draw a conclusion either way after the fact. I just did what seemed to be the right thing at the time. Anonymously upvoting and shaking my head didn't seem enough.

unclebucknasty 9y ago

Is it ironic that we are having a discussion about diversity of thought in SV on an SV-based platform that says if you don't agree with something, then you should downvote it into oblivion such that fewer people will see it? That should be your response versus asking questions and engaging in actual thoughtful discussion? Does that promote tolerance and diversity of thought? Or does it reinforce the notion that we should stick our fingers in our ears and balkanize ourselves in the face of ideas we don't like? And, worse actively work to prevent others from seeing those ideas?

unclebucknasty 9y ago
Ok, I'll answer. Yes. It is ironic.
pacificleo11 9y ago
Very valid point. surprisingly i never thought of it this way. Thank You
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  :) you're welcome.

sjg007 9y ago

The coastal elite are pro-housing except in their own backyard. Unfortunately for them, there are too many renters/millennials now so that the tide will turn if they can organize effectively.

primewave 9y ago
They have. Here: https://www.facebook.com/BARentersFed/ https://www.facebook.com/BARentersFed/

jbob2000 9y ago

In my opinion, this is what happens when things become "Serious Business". Silicon Valley and its individuals have become so powerful and wealthy that the stakes are insanely high. Imagine working your way up from the middle class to fabulous riches. Cars, houses, 5 star travel. You have the american dream, things are good. Now people are coming in and challenging you. The culture of "challenge everything" is a huge risk to your empire, your comfortable life is at risk. Quick! Consume the challengers or burn them at the stake! That's why DC is like this; they have power over an entire country (arguably the world, too). Everyone there needs to be incredibly careful, there's 1000 people waiting to eat them alive and take their job/power. If you want an environment where people challenge things, go where nobody is looking. Go somewhere that the MBAs and C-levels have given up. Those are the places where nothing matters, so you are free to make mistakes and break as much as possible; you can't do any worse than what's already there.

AstralStorm 9y ago
You mean like start ups should be? (The about only thing that is supposed to matter there is time and product market fit.)

muzz 9y ago

This is the highest rated comment, yet it is not a direct response to the article but rather about something else that it links to.