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UK blames Russia for 'malicious' NotPetya cyber-attack

26 points by iamben 9y ago

otp124 9y ago
> Russia has denied responsibility for the NotPetya attack - which is estimated to have cost companies more than $1.2bn - and pointed out that Russian firms were among those whose systems were affected. Or perhaps this has become a standard OpSec playbook to provide sufficient diplomatic cover? Not sure who to believe.
- WaxProlix 9y ago
  Sure, it's also reasonable to think that these companies were in on it and received compensation or hadn't signed on to an agency's agenda/paid protection money/whatever. Plenty could have happened, we just don't know.
teekert 9y ago
Recently a wave of DDOS attacks hit the banks of the Netherlands. While the large Bank CEOs were on the news saying this was a professional, very possibly the Russians, Jelle M. from the small town of Oosterhout was caught and confessed that he had spend something like 50$ on some DDOS stress testing service. There is a very nice story on this [0], unfortunately it is in Dutch. Yes, this is different but the ease with which the Russians are blamed seems to be very wide spread. Of course, we never get to see and investigate the evidence. [0] https://tweakers.net/reviews/6031/een-ddoser-betrapt-hoe-de-aanvaller-tegen-de-lamp-liep.html https://tweakers.net/reviews/6031/een-ddoser-betrapt-hoe-de-...
- akhatri_aus 9y ago
  Russia does employ 'Maskirovka' so it is pretty standard for them to deny anything despite being aware of it.
- vymague 9y ago
  It's kinda sad the public just eat it up.
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    Makes you wonder how much other BS is being forced down our throats. Often as a subject matter expert, when you see media coverage of your domain, you know it’s BS. But then you forget about that the second an “expert” in another domain is on TV telling you what to think. There have been psychology studies on this effect but I can’t find the references atm.
    - alva 9y ago
      Gell-Mann Amnesia
      - chatmasta 9y ago
        Yep, that's it. I guess the idea comes from a quote attributed to him [0]: > Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story-and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read with renewed interest as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about far-off Palestine than it was about the story you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know. I swear I've seen this confirmed in some psychology studies but I can't find them right now. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann
- HissingMachine 9y ago
  It's starting to become a problem, honestly. There was a case with a local MP here who was supporting an unpopular bill, so his website got DDOS'd and the next day he was in the media talking about how this had to be a sophisticated attack. Basically implying that it had to be a rogue state behind it, not mentioning Russia by name, but it was obvious, cringy, sad and obvious.
  - gandhium 9y ago
    I'd say if Russia wasn't messing with other countries (either by hacking, invading or trying to overthrow governments[0]) blaming something on them will be indeed a problem. But now they're reaping what they sow. [0] - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/18/russias-deadly-plot-overthrow-montenegros-government-assassinating/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/18/russias-deadly-pl...
- TausAmmer 9y ago
  Same with social justice outrage sells the product.
- alva 9y ago
  Same thing with the French election email leaks. Google "french election russia hack" and look at the assertions. The French intelligence agency very quietly denied Russia was behind the hack months later.
chatmasta 9y ago
The Mirai botnet was also attributed to "nation state actors." Turns out it was a couple teenagers trying to make some money with Minecraft. [0] Copy-pasting from an earlier comment of mine [1] on the Mirai/Minecraft story: > I don’t understand why every single cyberattack is immediately blamed on Russia or China. It’s an intellectual embarrassment, and especially worse when it’s coming from experts within the community rather than politicians in congress. Adding to that, equally embarrassing is the fact that the media and governments refer to "Russia" as if it's a single, personified entity. Even if an attack did "originate" in Russia, does that mean that it was sanctioned and planned by the Russian government? Or could it be one of the 144 million Russian citizens acting autonomously? It really requires a leap of faith to conclude that not only did the attack originate in Russia, but it was actually planned by the Russian government. Attribution of cyberattacks is hard, borderline impossible, without non-technical corroborating evidence. For example, a SIGINT or HUMINT intercept that reveals intent would corroborate otherwise unreliable technical attribution. When the only evidence for attribution is Russian IP addresses and "Cyrillic characters," it's irresponsible to go public with accusations like this. Of course, if there is corroborating intelligence pointing to Russia, we'll never see it. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/mirai-botnet-minecraft-scam-brought-down-the-internet/ https://www.wired.com/story/mirai-botnet-minecraft-scam-brou... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15921340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15921340
- ryanlol 9y ago
  >The Mirai botnet was also attributed to "nation state actors." Not by anyone you should listen to, Mirai was attacking minecraft servers from day one.
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    Unless you count Bruce Schneier, who congress sometimes listens to. To be fair, I ridiculed him for exactly this in my original comment, so I agree with you. The issue is not who we should listen to. It's who the politicians listen to, and who the media listens to. Those are the "experts" who, often unwillingly, set the narrative, driving public perception on the topic and ultimately influencing policy.

26 points by iamben 9y ago

> Russia has denied responsibility for the NotPetya attack - which is estimated to have cost companies more than $1.2bn - and pointed out that Russian firms were among those whose systems were affected. Or perhaps this has become a standard OpSec playbook to provide sufficient diplomatic cover? Not sure who to believe.

WaxProlix 9y ago
Sure, it's also reasonable to think that these companies were in on it and received compensation or hadn't signed on to an agency's agenda/paid protection money/whatever. Plenty could have happened, we just don't know.

teekert 9y ago

Recently a wave of DDOS attacks hit the banks of the Netherlands. While the large Bank CEOs were on the news saying this was a professional, very possibly the Russians, Jelle M. from the small town of Oosterhout was caught and confessed that he had spend something like 50$ on some DDOS stress testing service. There is a very nice story on this [0], unfortunately it is in Dutch. Yes, this is different but the ease with which the Russians are blamed seems to be very wide spread. Of course, we never get to see and investigate the evidence. [0] https://tweakers.net/reviews/6031/een-ddoser-betrapt-hoe-de-aanvaller-tegen-de-lamp-liep.html https://tweakers.net/reviews/6031/een-ddoser-betrapt-hoe-de-...

akhatri_aus 9y ago
Russia does employ 'Maskirovka' so it is pretty standard for them to deny anything despite being aware of it.
vymague 9y ago
It's kinda sad the public just eat it up.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  Makes you wonder how much other BS is being forced down our throats. Often as a subject matter expert, when you see media coverage of your domain, you know it’s BS. But then you forget about that the second an “expert” in another domain is on TV telling you what to think. There have been psychology studies on this effect but I can’t find the references atm.
  - alva 9y ago
    Gell-Mann Amnesia
    - chatmasta 9y ago
      Yep, that's it. I guess the idea comes from a quote attributed to him [0]: > Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect works as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story-and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read with renewed interest as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about far-off Palestine than it was about the story you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know. I swear I've seen this confirmed in some psychology studies but I can't find them right now. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann
HissingMachine 9y ago
It's starting to become a problem, honestly. There was a case with a local MP here who was supporting an unpopular bill, so his website got DDOS'd and the next day he was in the media talking about how this had to be a sophisticated attack. Basically implying that it had to be a rogue state behind it, not mentioning Russia by name, but it was obvious, cringy, sad and obvious.
- gandhium 9y ago
  I'd say if Russia wasn't messing with other countries (either by hacking, invading or trying to overthrow governments[0]) blaming something on them will be indeed a problem. But now they're reaping what they sow. [0] - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/18/russias-deadly-plot-overthrow-montenegros-government-assassinating/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/18/russias-deadly-pl...
TausAmmer 9y ago
Same with social justice outrage sells the product.
alva 9y ago
Same thing with the French election email leaks. Google "french election russia hack" and look at the assertions. The French intelligence agency very quietly denied Russia was behind the hack months later.

chatmasta 9y ago

The Mirai botnet was also attributed to "nation state actors." Turns out it was a couple teenagers trying to make some money with Minecraft. [0] Copy-pasting from an earlier comment of mine [1] on the Mirai/Minecraft story: > I don’t understand why every single cyberattack is immediately blamed on Russia or China. It’s an intellectual embarrassment, and especially worse when it’s coming from experts within the community rather than politicians in congress. Adding to that, equally embarrassing is the fact that the media and governments refer to "Russia" as if it's a single, personified entity. Even if an attack did "originate" in Russia, does that mean that it was sanctioned and planned by the Russian government? Or could it be one of the 144 million Russian citizens acting autonomously? It really requires a leap of faith to conclude that not only did the attack originate in Russia, but it was actually planned by the Russian government. Attribution of cyberattacks is hard, borderline impossible, without non-technical corroborating evidence. For example, a SIGINT or HUMINT intercept that reveals intent would corroborate otherwise unreliable technical attribution. When the only evidence for attribution is Russian IP addresses and "Cyrillic characters," it's irresponsible to go public with accusations like this. Of course, if there is corroborating intelligence pointing to Russia, we'll never see it. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/mirai-botnet-minecraft-scam-brought-down-the-internet/ https://www.wired.com/story/mirai-botnet-minecraft-scam-brou... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15921340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15921340

ryanlol 9y ago
>The Mirai botnet was also attributed to "nation state actors." Not by anyone you should listen to, Mirai was attacking minecraft servers from day one.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  Unless you count Bruce Schneier, who congress sometimes listens to. To be fair, I ridiculed him for exactly this in my original comment, so I agree with you. The issue is not who we should listen to. It's who the politicians listen to, and who the media listens to. Those are the "experts" who, often unwillingly, set the narrative, driving public perception on the topic and ultimately influencing policy.