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Wow, just wow. I am amazed by two things 1) How much a jerk both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are and 2) How young the engineers were that started all this...

• shin_lao 16y ago
  They're not jerks, they're putting the interest of their companies first.
  • jacquesm 16y ago
    They could do so without being jerks though, and yes, I think they both come off as jerks. I can think of several ways in which they could have achieved the same thing without being jerks.
    • shin_lao 16y ago
      Let's not rewrite history. A skilled engineer Andy was obviously a very poor salesman, a trait both Bill and Steve saw immediately. They took advantage of the situation for the benefit of the company and although wording might be harsh, what they did was fair. It was up to Andy to haggle. Bill wrote a unneeded "thank you" letter to Andy. Doesn't look like what a jerk does. And he eventually got $ 150,000 for his work. That's a fair amount of money, isn't it?
      • deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      • jacquesm 16y ago
        > They took advantage of the situation Contradicts the rest of what you wrote... The strongest point against that I can see is the fact that he saw it somewhere else first.
        • shin_lao 16y ago
          I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean they should have been "nice" to him? If yes, why? They were doing business, not having a cocktail party.
          • jacquesm 16y ago
            There seems to be this unspoken assumption that you can't do business if you're not nice. This is definitely not true. If I were Jobs (which I'm arguably not, so it is possible that you can't 'get there' by being nice) I would have seen quite a few possibilities achieving the same without coming off as a jerk. Maybe we disagree on that, but I don't think you need to be like that in order to succeed. Some of the wealthiest people that I have known would never think of treating another person that way, business or not, and I find it surprising that Jobs would do this. It's just my personal take on this, don't make it in to an absolute.
            • shin_lao 16y ago
              We agree on that you don't have to be jerk to be successful. I disagree when you say they haven't been nice with Andy. They've been "hard", but not mean (to me) and certainly not jerks. Steve used a fallacy to move his agenda but that's typical haggling (What! This used car is mint! And you want me to sell it for that price? You want me to close my business?!!). Let's not forget the story is told from Andy's point of view. Bill and Jobs were probably very assertive and Andy might be sensitive to the point he perceived that negatively.
              • jacquesm 16y ago
                > Let's not forget the story is told from Andy's point of view. That's very true, and from the other side it might come out very different.
  • farmerbuzz 16y ago
    Check out this other story about Jobs: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Gobble_Gobble_Gobble.txt http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s... I understand you probably did not have this story in mind when you made your comment, but he sounds like a jerk to me.
• hammmatt 16y ago
  It is amazing how many young people can succeed in technical fields at a young age. Most great physicists make some of their incredible discoveries when they are young. Mark Zuckerburg was in college when facebook was created. Same with Napster and dozens of others. Maybe, there is something special about that age. It is when you can actually use the brainpower, business intelligence, ext. If you have the goods, they seem to show around that age.
  • nck4222 16y ago
    Yeah that's actually exactly it. People are evolutionarily wired to try to stand out/take risks at that age. "The tendency [to take risks] probably affects one in five people, mostly young males, and declines with age. It may ensure our survival, even spur our evolution as individuals and as a species. Risk taking probably bestowed a crucial evolutionary advantage." http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/risk http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/risk
    • nerfhammer 16y ago
      Also at that age someone else is subsidizing your existence so you can play around with whatever projects you feel like with no expectations