12 ms·

> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in.... but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company'

by ReidZB 9y ago

> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in.... but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices? Obviously it does not care about complaints alone: so long as engagement metrics are up, the users' opinions can be damned. The good news (for those of us that don't like Facebook) is that it seems like users are leaving it—or at least that's the picture I get from stories/comments submitted here on HN.

SamLevin88 9y ago
They definitely are. And for users like me they certainly aren't getting their money's worth... I use FB purity, ublock origin, and have spent the better part of the last year using the 'on this day' feature to scrub historical information from the platform. As a tool Facebook still has valid use cases for me. The benefits of keeping it edge out any negatives. So for now I will stay. Unless any egregious election meddling information comes out, in which I'll seriously reevaluate that decision
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > to scrub historical information from the platform. You know they never actually delete user data, right? They don't delete your data if you actually delete your account, much less if you just delete a post. They just stop displaying it then.
  - chesimov 9y ago
    This is something I wonder about. I'm certain they never delete anything, because in aggregate all that data is surely very valuable and will be for years to come. However, I hope that by marking it for deletion, it becomes more likely that it gets stored on increasingly distant/cold media, increasing the likelihood that over the years it gets overwritten or corrupted or some drives fail. If times get difficult, maybe they'll mark my data as low priority, and let it get overwritten to save some money. Can anyone shed some light on this - is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Another thing I wonder about: perhaps if some companies want your facebook data, they might pay a rate and see all current information on your facebook. By deleting your data, you've denied these lower-tier companies from accessing it. I suspect that with enough money, they could buy access to deleted posts too. But such companies are probably fewer in number.
    - codegladiator 9y ago
      > is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Yes
      - mathattack 9y ago
        In essence it’s cheaper to store than delete.
    - rainbowmverse 9y ago
      They're very serious about data preservation. https://code.facebook.com/posts/1433093613662262/-under-the-hood-facebook-s-cold-storage-system-/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/1433093613662262/-under-the-...
  - _arvin 9y ago
    is_deleted: true Okay we're done here, folks!
  - aerotwelve 9y ago
    This is why I'm never giving them another piece of data for as long as I live. I haven't logged in for years and I blackhole Facebook emails to a folder I scan periodically just in case someone from years ago needs to get in touch with me. Interestingly enough, these emails occasionally get past my inbox filter, and I have to update my regex. I imagine this kind of circumvention is someone's full time job, which just repels me further from the platform.
Joe-Z 9y ago
I don't want to delete my account either, because I use fb to stay in contact with friends spread around the globe. (Granted: Very rarely to post something in local groups also.) But my bookmark points to facebook.com/messages and I practically never look on my feed. I guess (/hope) I'm about as valuable as a deleted account to facebook. Please feel free to correct me if you have some insights into this!
- simonswords82 9y ago
  Facebook reports of active users to their shareholders every month. You're an active user, you're valuable. The information you share via messenger, is equally valuable.
- tejasmanohar 9y ago
  Use messenger.com instead of facebook.com/messages to get rid of the distracting notifications.
- r053bud 9y ago
  I just think you need to be cognizant of how Facebook is tracking you across websites as well. It's not just the information you have associated with your account, when you are logged into Facebook, you are tracked wherever you go. Now, there are certainly ways to limit this using plugins, etc.
  - randycupertino 9y ago
    Yikes- wow, even from my computer browser- not even from my cell phone? If I have facebook password autosaved, log in, check facebook, and close the window without logging out, is it still tracking me? Damn. I did NOT realize this.
    - DCoder 9y ago
      Look at any other website - is there a FB Like button saying "25 of your friends liked this"? Congratulations, FB now knows you visit that site.
tjoff 9y ago
In my book this is more or less another proof that you should be vary of vendor lockin and that under no circumstances whatsoever use any such system for communication. It is bad enough to change phone number but you simply can't change facebook to something else and continue as usual. I guess this leaves email, SMS and IRC as the main remaining options. Somehow this needs to be communicated to the general public, but I don't have the slightest hope that this can be solved. The future sucks.
- spraak 9y ago
  > I guess this leaves email, SMS and IRC as the main remaining options. But how are those not also vendor lock-ins?
  - tehlike 9y ago
    You can text anyone on any network.
    - brewdad 9y ago
      Anyone in your home country. For me, and I don't think I am unusual in the US at least, texts to anywhere outside of the US, Canada, and Mexico aren't allowed without paying extra. Texts to many countries aren't allowed at any price.
      - tscs37 9y ago
        Sucks to be at your Mobile Provider. I can text literally any phone number, given I have enough money booked on the account. SMS is by nature not centralized, the data is exchanged between mobile providers. If you were to start your own mobile provider, you could text anyone everywhere given you manage to get peering.
  - larkeith 9y ago
    Email and IRC are completely vendor-agnostic protocols. I'm not as familiar with SMS, but it's much less centralized than Facebook - any user on any SMS provider may contact any other user, not only ones with the same provider.
fahadkhan 9y ago
I left Facebook. But mainly because I realised that it's a real poor way to keep in touch with anyone. Gives you the feeling that you are keeping in touch when in reality you are just sharing photos and quotes in a medium that's very noisy with adverts.
- jedrek 9y ago
  Unfortunately, there are a lot of events/organizations that organize almost exclusively through Facebook. Unfortunately, there effectively no other free platforms with a critical mass of sign ups big enough to be used in that way.
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    Of course there is Meetup which is certainly large enough for everything except the most niche event.
    - ValentineC 9y ago
      It isn't free to set up a meetup on Meetup.com though (which arguably helps keep the spam away).
    - orarbel1 9y ago
      Meetup is one of the spamiest products ever
      - mevile 9y ago
        Never seen spam in Meetup. I hooked up my personal calendar with Meetup and it added quite a bit of events into my calendar which was a bit spammy but it's only because I had told Meetup I was interested in all that stuff and it was easy to shut off and filter out. WeWork bought Meetup recently so I don't know if any of that will change now.
  - slenk 9y ago
    Google Calendar/Hangouts/Maybe even plus? Everyone has the gmail they probably created just to sign up for Facebook, since it seems this younger generation doesn't believe in email.
jellicle 9y ago
> then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices Once upon a time in the USA, and in some nations today, there was/is regulation in the public interest. Why not try it in the USA?
- briandear 9y ago
  You aren't required to use Facebook. You can, in less than one second, stop using it. It isn't electricity, roads, water. It's freakin' Facebook.
  - code_duck 9y ago
    The point wasn’t that they have a monopoly, it was that they have unfair business practices.
Analemma_ 9y ago
> The good news (for those of us that don't like Facebook) is that it seems like users are leaving it—or at least that's the picture I get from stories/comments submitted here on HN. This is good news in the long term, but in the short- and medium-terms it means Facebook is going to get desperate and start deploying more and more dark patterns like the one the GP is talking about. Considering their reach, I shudder to think of what a desperate Facebook will look like for the Internet.
- itronitron 9y ago
  the fewer that people use the network (FB) the less valuable it will be
- cm2187 9y ago
  I think that’s actually the case. In the many years I used facebook I don’t think I received a single email from them (only from that shitty trip advisor fb app that was spamming me like there was no tomorrow). Like many others here I got annoyed by my facebook feed and simply deleted the facebook app from my smartphone which means I now only connect once a week or less. Almost immediatly I started receiving a lot of facebook spam on my email. Clearly they have an algorithm “shit this user is leaving, let’s try to get him back” (algorithm which effect was only to aggravate my annoyance level). They must be worried about that.
dasil003 9y ago
> If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices A huge GDPR face slap could definitely help. I'm really curious to see how this plays out.
- leesalminen 9y ago
  While GDPR should be a privacy win for users, it is a giant pain for us as a small business. 1% of our customers are in the EU and the administrative overhead (as portrayed by our legal counsel) is unbearable at our price point. We decided to pull out of the EU, along with the other players in our niche.
  - jakecopp 9y ago
    May I ask what your niche is?
DanielBMarkham 9y ago
"...Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices?..." And the reason they're not leaving and don't want to leave? Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? I said it when Facebook started growing like gangbusters. Facebook is the frickin' devil. It uses your friends and family against you. For a free service, it sure costs like hell.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  >And the reason they're not leaving and don't want to leave? Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? Pick up the phone. There's FaceTime, Skype, text messages, actual phone calls, going to visit, sending letters, sending emails. Or, if you can't be bothered to do any of that maybe you should not even bother trying to connect?
- dlandis 9y ago
  > Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? Wait, are you really suggesting that Facebook is the only way to keep in touch with old friends and remote family?
- tylersmith 9y ago
  You can connect with them over email, SMS, or even not at all. Or you can use Facebook and experience the downsides that everyone is mentioning. This is a timeless story where a company provides a service, people get used to it, then complain when the company changes the service against their liking. You are and have always been free to communicate as if FB never existed. They owe you and your family nothing. But in many cases people prefer to pay the costs of using the service. They're not the devil just because you fail at communication without them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- itronitron 9y ago
  people could start writing letters again, that would be interesting
cwkoss 9y ago
Post hate-comments on every Sponsored Post you see. I'm hoping eventually they will implement an algorithm to blacklist people like me from ever seeing ads.
candlestables 9y ago
Not really. Every user who experiences is going to accrue anger, resentment, distrust for the platform, and they'll treat it accordingly, and when an alternative arises, switch. IMO Facebook should totally lay off security confirmations, account bans, and all that stuff because it just antagonizes people, unless the user actually does something significantly harmful to other users experience, ie largescale spamming (not just regular sharing), actual fake news propaganda (not just sharing a political story), actually abusing an account (not just using untrue details to protect their own privacy but otherwise using Facebook in an OK way). Otherwise, yeah, I think everyone's going to jump ship at first opportunity, because they don't get treated that well as users.
tylersmith 9y ago
The amount of people that complain about a service, product, or company, yet continue to be customers, astounds me. And then they wonder how they get away with their practices.
maus42 9y ago
HN crowd is a quite special case. Elsewhere in the world, FB is assumed as to be the standard. My romantic life has been very disappointing, so some time ago I tried creating a Tinder account (it is the only dating [yes you read it right, dating, not hookup] app that has entered the popular consciousness in this country and thus has a significant amount of female users). Last time I checked, they still required a FB account.
- abenga 9y ago
  I think you can now sign up on Tinder with a phone number

by ReidZB 9y ago

SamLevin88 9y ago

They definitely are. And for users like me they certainly aren't getting their money's worth... I use FB purity, ublock origin, and have spent the better part of the last year using the 'on this day' feature to scrub historical information from the platform. As a tool Facebook still has valid use cases for me. The benefits of keeping it edge out any negatives. So for now I will stay. Unless any egregious election meddling information comes out, in which I'll seriously reevaluate that decision

jnbiche 9y ago
> to scrub historical information from the platform. You know they never actually delete user data, right? They don't delete your data if you actually delete your account, much less if you just delete a post. They just stop displaying it then.
- chesimov 9y ago
  This is something I wonder about. I'm certain they never delete anything, because in aggregate all that data is surely very valuable and will be for years to come. However, I hope that by marking it for deletion, it becomes more likely that it gets stored on increasingly distant/cold media, increasing the likelihood that over the years it gets overwritten or corrupted or some drives fail. If times get difficult, maybe they'll mark my data as low priority, and let it get overwritten to save some money. Can anyone shed some light on this - is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Another thing I wonder about: perhaps if some companies want your facebook data, they might pay a rate and see all current information on your facebook. By deleting your data, you've denied these lower-tier companies from accessing it. I suspect that with enough money, they could buy access to deleted posts too. But such companies are probably fewer in number.
  - codegladiator 9y ago
    > is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Yes
    - mathattack 9y ago
      In essence it’s cheaper to store than delete.
  - rainbowmverse 9y ago
    They're very serious about data preservation. https://code.facebook.com/posts/1433093613662262/-under-the-hood-facebook-s-cold-storage-system-/ https://code.facebook.com/posts/1433093613662262/-under-the-...
- _arvin 9y ago
  is_deleted: true Okay we're done here, folks!
- aerotwelve 9y ago
  This is why I'm never giving them another piece of data for as long as I live. I haven't logged in for years and I blackhole Facebook emails to a folder I scan periodically just in case someone from years ago needs to get in touch with me. Interestingly enough, these emails occasionally get past my inbox filter, and I have to update my regex. I imagine this kind of circumvention is someone's full time job, which just repels me further from the platform.

Joe-Z 9y ago

I don't want to delete my account either, because I use fb to stay in contact with friends spread around the globe. (Granted: Very rarely to post something in local groups also.) But my bookmark points to facebook.com/messages and I practically never look on my feed. I guess (/hope) I'm about as valuable as a deleted account to facebook. Please feel free to correct me if you have some insights into this!

simonswords82 9y ago
Facebook reports of active users to their shareholders every month. You're an active user, you're valuable. The information you share via messenger, is equally valuable.
tejasmanohar 9y ago
Use messenger.com instead of facebook.com/messages to get rid of the distracting notifications.
r053bud 9y ago
I just think you need to be cognizant of how Facebook is tracking you across websites as well. It's not just the information you have associated with your account, when you are logged into Facebook, you are tracked wherever you go. Now, there are certainly ways to limit this using plugins, etc.
- randycupertino 9y ago
  Yikes- wow, even from my computer browser- not even from my cell phone? If I have facebook password autosaved, log in, check facebook, and close the window without logging out, is it still tracking me? Damn. I did NOT realize this.
  - DCoder 9y ago
    Look at any other website - is there a FB Like button saying "25 of your friends liked this"? Congratulations, FB now knows you visit that site.

tjoff 9y ago

In my book this is more or less another proof that you should be vary of vendor lockin and that under no circumstances whatsoever use any such system for communication. It is bad enough to change phone number but you simply can't change facebook to something else and continue as usual. I guess this leaves email, SMS and IRC as the main remaining options. Somehow this needs to be communicated to the general public, but I don't have the slightest hope that this can be solved. The future sucks.

spraak 9y ago
> I guess this leaves email, SMS and IRC as the main remaining options. But how are those not also vendor lock-ins?
- tehlike 9y ago
  You can text anyone on any network.
  - brewdad 9y ago
    Anyone in your home country. For me, and I don't think I am unusual in the US at least, texts to anywhere outside of the US, Canada, and Mexico aren't allowed without paying extra. Texts to many countries aren't allowed at any price.
    - tscs37 9y ago
      Sucks to be at your Mobile Provider. I can text literally any phone number, given I have enough money booked on the account. SMS is by nature not centralized, the data is exchanged between mobile providers. If you were to start your own mobile provider, you could text anyone everywhere given you manage to get peering.
- larkeith 9y ago
  Email and IRC are completely vendor-agnostic protocols. I'm not as familiar with SMS, but it's much less centralized than Facebook - any user on any SMS provider may contact any other user, not only ones with the same provider.

fahadkhan 9y ago

I left Facebook. But mainly because I realised that it's a real poor way to keep in touch with anyone. Gives you the feeling that you are keeping in touch when in reality you are just sharing photos and quotes in a medium that's very noisy with adverts.

jedrek 9y ago
Unfortunately, there are a lot of events/organizations that organize almost exclusively through Facebook. Unfortunately, there effectively no other free platforms with a critical mass of sign ups big enough to be used in that way.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  Of course there is Meetup which is certainly large enough for everything except the most niche event.
  - ValentineC 9y ago
    It isn't free to set up a meetup on Meetup.com though (which arguably helps keep the spam away).
  - orarbel1 9y ago
    Meetup is one of the spamiest products ever
    - mevile 9y ago
      Never seen spam in Meetup. I hooked up my personal calendar with Meetup and it added quite a bit of events into my calendar which was a bit spammy but it's only because I had told Meetup I was interested in all that stuff and it was easy to shut off and filter out. WeWork bought Meetup recently so I don't know if any of that will change now.
- slenk 9y ago
  Google Calendar/Hangouts/Maybe even plus? Everyone has the gmail they probably created just to sign up for Facebook, since it seems this younger generation doesn't believe in email.

jellicle 9y ago

> then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices Once upon a time in the USA, and in some nations today, there was/is regulation in the public interest. Why not try it in the USA?

briandear 9y ago
You aren't required to use Facebook. You can, in less than one second, stop using it. It isn't electricity, roads, water. It's freakin' Facebook.
- code_duck 9y ago
  The point wasn’t that they have a monopoly, it was that they have unfair business practices.

Analemma_ 9y ago

> The good news (for those of us that don't like Facebook) is that it seems like users are leaving it—or at least that's the picture I get from stories/comments submitted here on HN. This is good news in the long term, but in the short- and medium-terms it means Facebook is going to get desperate and start deploying more and more dark patterns like the one the GP is talking about. Considering their reach, I shudder to think of what a desperate Facebook will look like for the Internet.

itronitron 9y ago
the fewer that people use the network (FB) the less valuable it will be
cm2187 9y ago
I think that’s actually the case. In the many years I used facebook I don’t think I received a single email from them (only from that shitty trip advisor fb app that was spamming me like there was no tomorrow). Like many others here I got annoyed by my facebook feed and simply deleted the facebook app from my smartphone which means I now only connect once a week or less. Almost immediatly I started receiving a lot of facebook spam on my email. Clearly they have an algorithm “shit this user is leaving, let’s try to get him back” (algorithm which effect was only to aggravate my annoyance level). They must be worried about that.

dasil003 9y ago

> If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices A huge GDPR face slap could definitely help. I'm really curious to see how this plays out.

leesalminen 9y ago
While GDPR should be a privacy win for users, it is a giant pain for us as a small business. 1% of our customers are in the EU and the administrative overhead (as portrayed by our legal counsel) is unbearable at our price point. We decided to pull out of the EU, along with the other players in our niche.
- jakecopp 9y ago
  May I ask what your niche is?

DanielBMarkham 9y ago

"...Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices?..." And the reason they're not leaving and don't want to leave? Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? I said it when Facebook started growing like gangbusters. Facebook is the frickin' devil. It uses your friends and family against you. For a free service, it sure costs like hell.

muninn_ 9y ago
>And the reason they're not leaving and don't want to leave? Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? Pick up the phone. There's FaceTime, Skype, text messages, actual phone calls, going to visit, sending letters, sending emails. Or, if you can't be bothered to do any of that maybe you should not even bother trying to connect?
dlandis 9y ago
> Where else are you going to connect up with old friends and remote family members? Wait, are you really suggesting that Facebook is the only way to keep in touch with old friends and remote family?
tylersmith 9y ago
You can connect with them over email, SMS, or even not at all. Or you can use Facebook and experience the downsides that everyone is mentioning. This is a timeless story where a company provides a service, people get used to it, then complain when the company changes the service against their liking. You are and have always been free to communicate as if FB never existed. They owe you and your family nothing. But in many cases people prefer to pay the costs of using the service. They're not the devil just because you fail at communication without them.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
itronitron 9y ago
people could start writing letters again, that would be interesting

cwkoss 9y ago

Post hate-comments on every Sponsored Post you see. I'm hoping eventually they will implement an algorithm to blacklist people like me from ever seeing ads.

candlestables 9y ago

Not really. Every user who experiences is going to accrue anger, resentment, distrust for the platform, and they'll treat it accordingly, and when an alternative arises, switch. IMO Facebook should totally lay off security confirmations, account bans, and all that stuff because it just antagonizes people, unless the user actually does something significantly harmful to other users experience, ie largescale spamming (not just regular sharing), actual fake news propaganda (not just sharing a political story), actually abusing an account (not just using untrue details to protect their own privacy but otherwise using Facebook in an OK way). Otherwise, yeah, I think everyone's going to jump ship at first opportunity, because they don't get treated that well as users.

tylersmith 9y ago

The amount of people that complain about a service, product, or company, yet continue to be customers, astounds me. And then they wonder how they get away with their practices.

maus42 9y ago

HN crowd is a quite special case. Elsewhere in the world, FB is assumed as to be the standard. My romantic life has been very disappointing, so some time ago I tried creating a Tinder account (it is the only dating [yes you read it right, dating, not hookup] app that has entered the popular consciousness in this country and thus has a significant amount of female users). Last time I checked, they still required a FB account.

abenga 9y ago
I think you can now sign up on Tinder with a phone number