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I suppose then the question becomes "Who would you rather have listening in?"
by byproxy 9y ago
I suppose then the question becomes "Who would you rather have listening in?"
- eesmith 9y agoLet's see, if the US is listening in, then there's a small chance they will misinterpret my actions as suspicious, arrest me, and perhaps even lead to my imprisonment. This may include extraordinary rendition, should they make that decision while I am in another country. If China is listening in, then there's a chance I will be denied a visa to visit China or, should I be given a visa and visit, then they can arrest me, etc. Upsides in either case? None. So I would rather have China listening in than the US.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Grazester 9y agoDont fool yourself. If you get a Huawei phone and use it with a U.S. carrier with any services by U.S. tech companies that can be back-doored or subpoenaed, then you could potentially have both the U.S. and China spying on you. It has already been proven in the past that these Chinese phones send considerable amounts of data to Chinese servers. If you are someone working with a military contractor or the government(with any kind of security clearance) I dont think the U.S. would want you using a Chinese phone for obvious reasons
- spicytunacone 9y ago>It has already been proven in the past that these Chinese phones send considerable amounts of data to Chinese servers. Not that I don't believe this, but can you provide a canonical source to support this claim? I don't keep up with this literature.
- emodendroket 9y agoAlso, what are they sending? My natural response to this would be "well of course they do" because presumably most phones come with some software/services from the manufacturer.
- jonyt 9y agoI think you're very much mistaken about the risks involved. For example[0]. I really have a hard time understanding people who think the US is worse than China. China is orders of magnitude worse. Sure, the NSA may spy on your electronic communications but the level of invasive, oppressive surveillance is not even comparable[1]. As far as I know no people are in jail in the US for protesting the government's policies. In China that's not the case[2]. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/daughter-gui-minhai-swedish-bookseller-china-fears-jail https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/daughter-gui-m... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/twelve-days-in-xinjiang-how-chinas-surveillance-state-overwhelms-daily-life-1513700355 https://www.wsj.com/articles/twelve-days-in-xinjiang-how-chi... [2] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/political-prisoners-china-database_us_589a1d83e4b09bd304be3300 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/political-prisoners-chi...
- thaumasiotes 9y agoYou may feel that from a human rights perspective China is morally inferior to the US. This has no bearing on whether you're better off being spied on by one or the other. If you're located in the US, the US government has an extreme amount of power over you and China has almost none; it's obviously better to be spied on by China. If you're in China, the logic reverses.
- pythonaut_16 9y agoNot to mention, with the NSA, the primary concern should be transparency and whether what they're doing is legal/allowed by the constitution. With China there are real national security concerns. We can have discussions and concerns about the NSA while also recognizing foreign nations pose an equal or worse threat. At least with the NSA there is some hope of reigning them in when they overstep.
- MertsA 9y ago> At least with the NSA there is some hope of reigning them in when they overstep. Honestly? The response to the Snowden leaks would seem to indicate the opposite.
- 9y ago
- ilkan 9y agoThe US gov't is unlikely to jack the results of $200M and 11 years of research and give it to state-controlled companies.
- y-c-o-m-b 9y agoWhat about blackmail? They can use your surfing data (porn, social media) to blackmail you. If you do your banking or shopping on your phone, they will have access to your credit card data, social security #, etc. that can be sold or used for cyber warfare. You're right, no upsides, but there are huge risks with having the Chinese steal your information.
- eesmith 9y agoAhh, you are right. I didn't think about that possibility because I don't have a smartphone.
- eesmith 9y agoAnd because I read "listening in" literally, as intercepting audio, rather than metaphorically as being able to intercept all traffic. Also, the US has blackmailed people, like the FBI attempt to blackmail Martin Luther King Jr. We know the US gathers the porn habits of people who it considers might be a threat, including of a US person (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/nsa-porn-muslims_n_4346128.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/nsa-porn-muslims_n... ). So really it's a matter of balancing the odds. The odds are low that either government will care about me. It feels more likely that my life will be upended by a mistake, like what happened with Brandon Mayfield, and a mistake by the US government is far more likely to affect me than a mistake by the Chinese government.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoIf these are intelligence agencies, wouldn't they also consider assassinating you?
- eesmith 9y agoI'm honored that you think I'm that important. The hypothetical choice is, would I rather have the US or China listening to my phone, if I had to choose one, and "none of the above" was not an option. It is not easy to assassinate someone in another continent, and I don't live in China. There's also the chance that the assassination will fail, and even backfire, where the further investigation might reveal agent identities. I'm just not that worthwhile to possibly waste those resources.