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Satellites, being a broadcast technology, don't seem well suited to Internet access. When I request my bank information, the response from the satellite will be

Satellites, being a broadcast technology, don't seem well suited to Internet access. When I request my bank information, the response from the satellite will be audible to anyone who cares to listen for the signal. Assuming there are some zero days out there against HTTPS, what is there to prevent third parties listening in? At least with cable and fiber, only those entities who can afford to install beam splitters can listen in (see Room 641A). Any network engineers with satellite experience care to chime in on this?

Retric 9y ago
Many networks are encrypted by default. It would be odd for SpaceX not to do this.
bahmboo 9y ago
Uhhh...your cell phone is wireless and uses https just fine.
icelancer 9y ago
The military uses satphones to call in airstrikes and communicate troop movements. I think the technology is about as safe as it can get if modern encryption is used, zero-days or not.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
baseethrowaway 9y ago
This is a very useful resource on the topic: https://smile.amazon.com/101-Fresh-Critical-Thinking-Activities-Grades/dp/0590375237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518636127&sr=8-1&keywords=critical+thinking+101 https://smile.amazon.com/101-Fresh-Critical-Thinking-Activit...
roywiggins 9y ago
More than several intermediaries see all the packets between you and your bank. Packet-switched networks are pretty much a broadcast technology. Your information could be routed any which-way through the network, you have no idea who might be logging it as it passes by. And the horse has already left the barn, kicked over a lantern, and set it on fire, because an incredible amount of internet is already being barfed across the EM spectrum. Anyone who can listen in to your satellite internet has already cracked your phone's LTE and your laptop's WiFi, so it's kind of moot anyway. People in rural parts of the US are already spending $$$ for mobile data plans in lieu of wired broadband.
mikeash 9y ago
Tapping the cable coming out of your house is about a trillion times easier than cracking HTTPS with properly set up endpoints.
- arcticfox 9y ago
  I think GP is talking about a bulk collection scenario rather than a targeted attack. I agree that it's a very misplaced concern, but it seemed to me an honest question from GP that others are likely confused about as well.
alexbeloi 9y ago
>https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/45602/how-does-broadcast-work-in-cable-networks https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/45602... Cable internet is a broadcast network, every signal from your ISP's exit node is sent to every client attached to that node in your geographically local region (I think this can be a tens or hundreds clients) and vice versa. Your modem only looks for frames that are designated for your modem's MAC address, the rest are ignored but still received. Same as channels in broadcast tv, everyone is always receiving the signal for all the channels, but they only 'tune in' to their channel. The difference is that your internet modem is only allowed to tune into one channel (designated by its MAC address). I believe each modem has a unique key for modulating/demodulating its signal, and this is used to establish secure communication with the ISP. In the book "Computer Networking A Top-Down Approach" the following is written: "One important characteristic of cable Internet access is that it is a shared broadcast medium. In particular, every packet sent by the head end travels down- stream on every link to every home and every packet sent by a home travels on the upstream channel to the head end. For this reason, if several users are simultaneously downloading a video file on the downstream channel, the actual rate at which each user receives its video file will be significantly lower than the aggregate cable downstream rate. On the other hand, if there are only a few active users and they are all Web surfing, then each of the users may actually receive Web pages at the full cable downstream rate, because the users will rarely request a Web page at exactly the same time." tl;dr you already probably broadcast your modulated bank info (if you're on cable).
- jimpudar 9y ago
  Very cool, thanks for the detailed information!
walrus01 9y ago
I'm a network engineer with a lot of two way satellite experience. You are not only wrong but you are so grossly wrong that you should be ashamed of yourself and delete your post. Please go read some basic books on cryptography (start with Schneier) before spouting absolute nonsense. Satellite is no more or less trustworthy than licensed point to point microwave, using wifi in an urban environment, or sharing TDMA timesliced bandwidth on a DOCSIS3.0/DOCSIS3.1 coax network segment. All of which are media that can potentially be intercepted and rely on properly implemented crypto.
- dronemallone 9y ago
  welcome to hacker news!

Retric 9y ago

Many networks are encrypted by default. It would be odd for SpaceX not to do this.

bahmboo 9y ago

Uhhh...your cell phone is wireless and uses https just fine.

icelancer 9y ago

The military uses satphones to call in airstrikes and communicate troop movements. I think the technology is about as safe as it can get if modern encryption is used, zero-days or not.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

baseethrowaway 9y ago

This is a very useful resource on the topic: https://smile.amazon.com/101-Fresh-Critical-Thinking-Activities-Grades/dp/0590375237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518636127&sr=8-1&keywords=critical+thinking+101 https://smile.amazon.com/101-Fresh-Critical-Thinking-Activit...

roywiggins 9y ago

More than several intermediaries see all the packets between you and your bank. Packet-switched networks are pretty much a broadcast technology. Your information could be routed any which-way through the network, you have no idea who might be logging it as it passes by. And the horse has already left the barn, kicked over a lantern, and set it on fire, because an incredible amount of internet is already being barfed across the EM spectrum. Anyone who can listen in to your satellite internet has already cracked your phone's LTE and your laptop's WiFi, so it's kind of moot anyway. People in rural parts of the US are already spending $$$ for mobile data plans in lieu of wired broadband.

mikeash 9y ago

Tapping the cable coming out of your house is about a trillion times easier than cracking HTTPS with properly set up endpoints.

arcticfox 9y ago
I think GP is talking about a bulk collection scenario rather than a targeted attack. I agree that it's a very misplaced concern, but it seemed to me an honest question from GP that others are likely confused about as well.

alexbeloi 9y ago

>https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/45602/how-does-broadcast-work-in-cable-networks https://networkengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/45602... Cable internet is a broadcast network, every signal from your ISP's exit node is sent to every client attached to that node in your geographically local region (I think this can be a tens or hundreds clients) and vice versa. Your modem only looks for frames that are designated for your modem's MAC address, the rest are ignored but still received. Same as channels in broadcast tv, everyone is always receiving the signal for all the channels, but they only 'tune in' to their channel. The difference is that your internet modem is only allowed to tune into one channel (designated by its MAC address). I believe each modem has a unique key for modulating/demodulating its signal, and this is used to establish secure communication with the ISP. In the book "Computer Networking A Top-Down Approach" the following is written: "One important characteristic of cable Internet access is that it is a shared broadcast medium. In particular, every packet sent by the head end travels down- stream on every link to every home and every packet sent by a home travels on the upstream channel to the head end. For this reason, if several users are simultaneously downloading a video file on the downstream channel, the actual rate at which each user receives its video file will be significantly lower than the aggregate cable downstream rate. On the other hand, if there are only a few active users and they are all Web surfing, then each of the users may actually receive Web pages at the full cable downstream rate, because the users will rarely request a Web page at exactly the same time." tl;dr you already probably broadcast your modulated bank info (if you're on cable).

jimpudar 9y ago
Very cool, thanks for the detailed information!

walrus01 9y ago

I'm a network engineer with a lot of two way satellite experience. You are not only wrong but you are so grossly wrong that you should be ashamed of yourself and delete your post. Please go read some basic books on cryptography (start with Schneier) before spouting absolute nonsense. Satellite is no more or less trustworthy than licensed point to point microwave, using wifi in an urban environment, or sharing TDMA timesliced bandwidth on a DOCSIS3.0/DOCSIS3.1 coax network segment. All of which are media that can potentially be intercepted and rely on properly implemented crypto.

dronemallone 9y ago
welcome to hacker news!