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So.. At this point it's no secret that hostile nation state actors run a large number(majority) of Tor relays and exits and target users using their favorite 0

So.. At this point it's no secret that hostile nation state actors run a large number(majority) of Tor relays and exits and target users using their favorite 0 day of the month in addition to revealing their real IP. Is it wise or even safe to use Tor at this point? The Tor network was not designed to be resistant to the current and very active global adversaries. I say this because of all the comments I am reading about supporting Tor and having an onion service. If you are someone who still thinks Tor is safe,can you explain to me what threat model would make it a relevant solution? No matter how I look at it all the threat actors Tor might help against can either deanonymize you or they are so resource bound,using a reputable VPN will thwart them just as well (with the reduced risk of a hostile 'exit') At this point,I think recommending Tor might actually be dangerous. Looking Forward to the Orchid project to go live.

kaffee 9y ago
Use tor for hidden services only. There's far less scope for a hostile geographic nation state to serve malware and/or record IPs. I'm also confused about what exactly a nation state learns when it sees that you accessed nytimes.com (or some other site) using tor. They learn the same thing by monitoring all internet traffic. Perhaps you could clarify your criticism of tor for the benefit of readers?
- badrabbit 9y ago
  Certainly. As you said,a hostile nation state targeting a nobody (like myself) would gain no new information by the fact that it knows I used Tor to access nytimes. Unfortunately, intelligence community and law enforcement agencies do not presume innocence. They would presume that you're a "bad guy" who is "trying to hide". What harmless sites you visit is of little importance to them. You're a likely threat,essentially, a Tor user is an active target for proactive LE and Intelligence gathering operations. This isn't parnoia,the snowden leaks which dated around 2008 show the NSA targeting visitors of sites like linux.com (xkeyscore). When hunting for "threat" you look for the people trying to hide. For example,they love it when people use PGP encrypted emails,their sensors pick up on that and they correlate metadata gathered from that communication for further intel gathering and offensive targeting (PGP does not encrypt email metadata) So,using Tor with a nation state actor or LE agency incorporated into your threat model would be very bad in my opinion,even if all you do is visit nytimes over https via hidden service with noscript.

kaffee 9y ago

Use tor for hidden services only. There's far less scope for a hostile geographic nation state to serve malware and/or record IPs. I'm also confused about what exactly a nation state learns when it sees that you accessed nytimes.com (or some other site) using tor. They learn the same thing by monitoring all internet traffic. Perhaps you could clarify your criticism of tor for the benefit of readers?

badrabbit 9y ago
Certainly. As you said,a hostile nation state targeting a nobody (like myself) would gain no new information by the fact that it knows I used Tor to access nytimes. Unfortunately, intelligence community and law enforcement agencies do not presume innocence. They would presume that you're a "bad guy" who is "trying to hide". What harmless sites you visit is of little importance to them. You're a likely threat,essentially, a Tor user is an active target for proactive LE and Intelligence gathering operations. This isn't parnoia,the snowden leaks which dated around 2008 show the NSA targeting visitors of sites like linux.com (xkeyscore). When hunting for "threat" you look for the people trying to hide. For example,they love it when people use PGP encrypted emails,their sensors pick up on that and they correlate metadata gathered from that communication for further intel gathering and offensive targeting (PGP does not encrypt email metadata) So,using Tor with a nation state actor or LE agency incorporated into your threat model would be very bad in my opinion,even if all you do is visit nytimes over https via hidden service with noscript.