6 ms·

The actual federal pay schedules are here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-

by abtinf 9y ago

The actual federal pay schedules are here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... The GS-15 range for the DC area is $135k-164k. For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vkou 9y ago
What kind of medical benefits are we talking about? How many years do you have to work for the government to get it? My employer's healthcare plan costs my employer ~20k/year as long as I'm employed, more if I had children, yet for some reason, nobody ever counts that as part of AMAFAGOPL salaries.
- jasongill 9y ago
  I wasn't sure if "AMAFAGOPL" was a real acronym or just something you made up, so I searched for it on Google. The only result was a link to your comment - posted just 12 minutes ago. Google is getting (scary) good at indexing social content, it seems.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Amazon-microsoft-facebook-google-apple.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    There's several tiers of indexing in Google Search (it's a pyramid, with Instant near the top when that existed), and lots of social stuff is refreshed very frequently at the top of it. That is how recent Tweets show up in searches, as well. I'd be curious how often Googlebot hits HN.
- evilduck 9y ago
  There's not a single "federal employee medical plan", there's a set of insurance plan choices like most large employers and you choose what level of risk/deductible and coverage you want for what you're willing to pay. Standard Flex Savings and Health Savings plans are also available. AFAIK you're eligible to sign up on day one of employment just like most employers. My wife is a fed, last year the government contributed $14k to our health insurance, which is pretty much in line with most plans from large companies. I've had developer jobs where the benefit plans were competitive or comparable to our federal benefits plan, we just stay on the federal plan because my wife doesn't plan on leaving federal service and the continuity is easier. The only advantage really is that there's a lot of federal employees on every possible plan so all the plans are pretty good compared to what you can get at smaller companies. If you work at a company of a 100 or more people, that company should be able to get you similar rates. I don't have first hand experience or much knowledge to speak to, but I have heard federal insurance plans are quite desirable for folks with expensive pre-existing conditions. The other reply is a bit dated too, there's no longer a real pension available to new employees. There are probably still long-term employees or retirees kicking around with those older pre-1987 retirement packages, but all recent hires are on a plan that's pretty much equivalent to a 401k (Thrift Savings Plan) + a Basic Benefits plan (which is pretty basic and you still pay into. It roughly equates to getting two Social Security payments instead of one). The bulk of a federal employee's retirement funds will come from contributions to their TSP plan.
  - vkou 9y ago
    So, your medical plan evaporates the moment you stop working for most federal agencies? Just like my private employer's medical plan? And guaranteed pensions are no longer a thing? What is left as a justification for below-market salaries? Employment opportunities in government-dominated towns (which do not have healthy private-sector economies), and more job security?
    - wtf_is_up 9y ago
      The justification for below-market salaries is that you aren't expected to actually produce anything and are almost impossible to terminate unless you commit fraud or harassment. This comes from first hand experience as a federal engineer for almost a decade.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jelling 9y ago
...and any sizable employer offers healthcare and a 401(k). So at best you could say they're betting on an inflation-adjusted pension? That's not going to sell many candidates.
- soVeryTired 9y ago
  I'm not from the US, but I'm guessing a 401(k) pension scheme is defined contribution: you pay in cash in a tax advantaged way, and the risk that the pension scheme loses money or doesn't make enough of a return to support you in retirement is borne by you. I'm also guessing that the government's pension scheme is defined benefit: the risk that the scheme loses money is borne by the government, and you get your pre-determined payout unless the government goes bankrupt. Defined contribution pensions are typically much more valuable, since they can obviate the need to save for retirement (or at least part of that need). In the UK, it's extremely competitive to become a civil servant despite the mediocre pay. The reason is security, both in your job and in retirement.
  - arglebarnacle 9y ago
    Yes that's right, but you've got the terms reversed. Defined contribution is the one where you bear the risk, and defined benefit is where the government bears the risk.
    - soVeryTired 9y ago
      Whoops! My bad - edited.
    - gbacon 9y ago
      A portion of the risk. PBGC pays out at a significant discount.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  I would take a government guaranteed pension and lifetime health care over 401k any day.
Robotbeat 9y ago
> For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits. No, nowadays you have to pay in for retirement and medical benefits. Retirement money is partially matched, but health care generally is no cheaper than a good private plan.
snowwrestler 9y ago
> For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits. A relative of mine has been a federal employee for over a decade and gets neither of those. She has a TSP (like a government 401k) and that's it. Maybe some federal employees got something like this at some point, but it's very misleading to just drop that into conversation like it's true across the board.
- fma 9y ago
  Your relative either doesn't have an understanding of her retirement plan or isn't telling you everything. One component of the FERS is the "Basic Benefit Plan" which is the pension. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/062513/what-federal-employees-retirement-system-fers-and-how-does-it-work.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/06251...
  - snowwrestler 9y ago
    I followed up on this and you're right, there is a pension component too. Although she laughed and said it is "hilariously small."

by abtinf 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vkou 9y ago

What kind of medical benefits are we talking about? How many years do you have to work for the government to get it? My employer's healthcare plan costs my employer ~20k/year as long as I'm employed, more if I had children, yet for some reason, nobody ever counts that as part of AMAFAGOPL salaries.

jasongill 9y ago
I wasn't sure if "AMAFAGOPL" was a real acronym or just something you made up, so I searched for it on Google. The only result was a link to your comment - posted just 12 minutes ago. Google is getting (scary) good at indexing social content, it seems.
- vkou 9y ago
  Amazon-microsoft-facebook-google-apple.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  There's several tiers of indexing in Google Search (it's a pyramid, with Instant near the top when that existed), and lots of social stuff is refreshed very frequently at the top of it. That is how recent Tweets show up in searches, as well. I'd be curious how often Googlebot hits HN.
evilduck 9y ago
There's not a single "federal employee medical plan", there's a set of insurance plan choices like most large employers and you choose what level of risk/deductible and coverage you want for what you're willing to pay. Standard Flex Savings and Health Savings plans are also available. AFAIK you're eligible to sign up on day one of employment just like most employers. My wife is a fed, last year the government contributed $14k to our health insurance, which is pretty much in line with most plans from large companies. I've had developer jobs where the benefit plans were competitive or comparable to our federal benefits plan, we just stay on the federal plan because my wife doesn't plan on leaving federal service and the continuity is easier. The only advantage really is that there's a lot of federal employees on every possible plan so all the plans are pretty good compared to what you can get at smaller companies. If you work at a company of a 100 or more people, that company should be able to get you similar rates. I don't have first hand experience or much knowledge to speak to, but I have heard federal insurance plans are quite desirable for folks with expensive pre-existing conditions. The other reply is a bit dated too, there's no longer a real pension available to new employees. There are probably still long-term employees or retirees kicking around with those older pre-1987 retirement packages, but all recent hires are on a plan that's pretty much equivalent to a 401k (Thrift Savings Plan) + a Basic Benefits plan (which is pretty basic and you still pay into. It roughly equates to getting two Social Security payments instead of one). The bulk of a federal employee's retirement funds will come from contributions to their TSP plan.
- vkou 9y ago
  So, your medical plan evaporates the moment you stop working for most federal agencies? Just like my private employer's medical plan? And guaranteed pensions are no longer a thing? What is left as a justification for below-market salaries? Employment opportunities in government-dominated towns (which do not have healthy private-sector economies), and more job security?
  - wtf_is_up 9y ago
    The justification for below-market salaries is that you aren't expected to actually produce anything and are almost impossible to terminate unless you commit fraud or harassment. This comes from first hand experience as a federal engineer for almost a decade.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

jelling 9y ago

...and any sizable employer offers healthcare and a 401(k). So at best you could say they're betting on an inflation-adjusted pension? That's not going to sell many candidates.

soVeryTired 9y ago
I'm not from the US, but I'm guessing a 401(k) pension scheme is defined contribution: you pay in cash in a tax advantaged way, and the risk that the pension scheme loses money or doesn't make enough of a return to support you in retirement is borne by you. I'm also guessing that the government's pension scheme is defined benefit: the risk that the scheme loses money is borne by the government, and you get your pre-determined payout unless the government goes bankrupt. Defined contribution pensions are typically much more valuable, since they can obviate the need to save for retirement (or at least part of that need). In the UK, it's extremely competitive to become a civil servant despite the mediocre pay. The reason is security, both in your job and in retirement.
- arglebarnacle 9y ago
  Yes that's right, but you've got the terms reversed. Defined contribution is the one where you bear the risk, and defined benefit is where the government bears the risk.
  - soVeryTired 9y ago
    Whoops! My bad - edited.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    A portion of the risk. PBGC pays out at a significant discount.
maxxxxx 9y ago
I would take a government guaranteed pension and lifetime health care over 401k any day.

Robotbeat 9y ago

> For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits. No, nowadays you have to pay in for retirement and medical benefits. Retirement money is partially matched, but health care generally is no cheaper than a good private plan.

snowwrestler 9y ago

> For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits. A relative of mine has been a federal employee for over a decade and gets neither of those. She has a TSP (like a government 401k) and that's it. Maybe some federal employees got something like this at some point, but it's very misleading to just drop that into conversation like it's true across the board.

fma 9y ago
Your relative either doesn't have an understanding of her retirement plan or isn't telling you everything. One component of the FERS is the "Basic Benefit Plan" which is the pension. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/062513/what-federal-employees-retirement-system-fers-and-how-does-it-work.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/06251...
- snowwrestler 9y ago
  I followed up on this and you're right, there is a pension component too. Although she laughed and said it is "hilariously small."