8 ms·

Are you saying this is how contracts are awarded on FedBiz Ops? I know a handful of small players, myself included who have won IT contracts with the gov't and

Are you saying this is how contracts are awarded on FedBiz Ops? I know a handful of small players, myself included who have won IT contracts with the gov't and it is not at all like you stated.

jacquesm 9y ago
Small contracts are an entirely different matter. Try bagging something >> $1M or defense related. I've worked for the government on small jobs here in the EU a couple of times, as long as you stay below a certain amount you can bypass a ton of requirements. But once you go above that threshold the number of players drops very rapidly and there is no escaping the formal process. If you are capable of selling large contracts to the US Federal Government without having to submit a typical bid proposal then you are in a very fortunate position, but the people that I know that have done this in the past have all worked on stuff that either required their fairly unique skills or they were working on extremely small contracts (< $250K).
- abraae 9y ago
  The intestinal fortitude needed to prepare a proposal for these mega projects is enormous. I always end up with a gut churning feeling that no one is even going to read my work (which is interrupting any work on real projects), or that some back hander will result in a not level playing field.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Do people read them? If it's really a phone-sized book, I assume that there's some sort of algorithm, whether run by a person or a computer, that is just looking for things to check off a list.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      There is no algorithm or computer looking at it. It’s essentially a contract, to be looked at by lawyers and project sponsors.
    - gbacon 9y ago
      Sometimes from debriefs, it is clear that they at best skimmed. Therefore the job of the proposal writer is to make the evaluator's job easy and to make the reader eager to turn the page, e.g., no walls of text just like on reddit or Hacker News.
- woobar 9y ago
  Here is one of the two young entrepreneurs (19 and 23 years old) that secured ~$300M DoD contract. So obviously, it is not as bad. ;) In 2005, Packouz (23 years old at the time) joined Efraim Diveroli (19 years old at the time) in Diveroli's arms company AEY Inc. By the end of 2006, the company had won 149 contracts worth around $10.5 million.[1] In early 2007, AEY secured a nearly $300 million U.S. government contract to supply the Afghan Army with 100 million rounds of AK-47 ammunition, millions of rounds for SVD Dragunov sniper rifles, aviation rockets and other munitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Packouz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Packouz EDIT: added quote from Wikipedia
  - hueving 9y ago
    Supply contracts are very different than a bid to build something to specifications.
  - sjg007 9y ago
    I like how they were turned in by their supplier for failing to pay.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      It's also listed as a text book case of what is wrong with procurement.
  - epmaybe 9y ago
    since nobody mentioned already, there is an enjoyable film that was recently made about these two individuals called "War Dogs".
    - charlesdm 9y ago
      I was about to say the same -- great movie!
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Pity they had to do it fraudulently. This is not exactly a bespoke product though. 4 years in jail/7 months house arrest is not a great thing to have on your record either but I guess the payday made it worth it for them.
robertha 9y ago
I just registered on SAM and submitted a bid (something unrelated to this), but no idea what I was doing, I mean I put together a plan, had meaningful past performance, but overall I'm just hoping for the best. Would you happen to have any resources you followed? Or, suggestions that you believe led you to submitting a successful bid?
- gbacon 9y ago
  Was your bid on the recent SBIR/STTR solicitation by chance?
  - robertha 9y ago
    Custom database product for EPA, seemed like a good fit. While I have no connections to EPA, I do some collaborative work with bio-engineering department at a university in Chicago, I'm a data scientist/developer/have a small team, I thought I'd try dipping my toes in something new.
    - gbacon 9y ago
      Any technical people you were able to have discussions with in preparing your bid would be good places to start with follow-on conversations. An acquaintance with a setup similar to yours does well with a virtuous cycle of rolling SBIR and STTR results into his commercial products, which fuel more SBIR wins. He also does lots of legwork in the form of hand delivering white papers he’s written in office calls with customers and potential customers during site visits. People do business with people — particularly those we like, know, and trust — not companies and agencies. Find someone whose headache you can make go away. Keep the conversation moving. This is a patient person’s game. Sometimes you’re planting seeds that will bloom later.
- efm 9y ago
  There are Procurement Technical Assistance centers in every region of the country. They are staffed by former procurement officers, and help companies learn how to sell to government and prime contractors. http://www.aptac-us.org/ http://www.aptac-us.org/
jseliger 9y ago
Are you saying this is how contracts are awarded on FedBiz Ops? I do grant writing for nonprofit and public agencies, along with some research-based businesses, and people interested in getting into this sort of thing will contact us, or people like us. We're a little like lawyers: it is possible to do everything right, but it's very hard and unlikely if it's your first rodeo. To take one small example: when you submit a budget, is it a program budget or a total project budget? Err and your application may be disqualified. Or consider indirect cost rates: http://seliger.com/2016/05/16/federally-approved-indirect-cost-rates-developing-federal-grant-proposal-budgets-de-minimus-arrived http://seliger.com/2016/05/16/federally-approved-indirect-co... . Again, either of these things are small, but multiply them x1000 and suddenly you'll understand why organizations hire us!
JPKab 9y ago
I'm sure you are aware of the 8a and other programs that allow you to win small contracts. If you think big projects are given on merit, then you are naive.

Are you saying this is how contracts are awarded on FedBiz Ops? I know a handful of small players, myself included who have won IT contracts with the gov't and it is not at all like you stated.

jacquesm 9y ago

Small contracts are an entirely different matter. Try bagging something >> $1M or defense related. I've worked for the government on small jobs here in the EU a couple of times, as long as you stay below a certain amount you can bypass a ton of requirements. But once you go above that threshold the number of players drops very rapidly and there is no escaping the formal process. If you are capable of selling large contracts to the US Federal Government without having to submit a typical bid proposal then you are in a very fortunate position, but the people that I know that have done this in the past have all worked on stuff that either required their fairly unique skills or they were working on extremely small contracts (< $250K).

abraae 9y ago
The intestinal fortitude needed to prepare a proposal for these mega projects is enormous. I always end up with a gut churning feeling that no one is even going to read my work (which is interrupting any work on real projects), or that some back hander will result in a not level playing field.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Do people read them? If it's really a phone-sized book, I assume that there's some sort of algorithm, whether run by a person or a computer, that is just looking for things to check off a list.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    There is no algorithm or computer looking at it. It’s essentially a contract, to be looked at by lawyers and project sponsors.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    Sometimes from debriefs, it is clear that they at best skimmed. Therefore the job of the proposal writer is to make the evaluator's job easy and to make the reader eager to turn the page, e.g., no walls of text just like on reddit or Hacker News.
woobar 9y ago
Here is one of the two young entrepreneurs (19 and 23 years old) that secured ~$300M DoD contract. So obviously, it is not as bad. ;) In 2005, Packouz (23 years old at the time) joined Efraim Diveroli (19 years old at the time) in Diveroli's arms company AEY Inc. By the end of 2006, the company had won 149 contracts worth around $10.5 million.[1] In early 2007, AEY secured a nearly $300 million U.S. government contract to supply the Afghan Army with 100 million rounds of AK-47 ammunition, millions of rounds for SVD Dragunov sniper rifles, aviation rockets and other munitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Packouz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Packouz EDIT: added quote from Wikipedia
- hueving 9y ago
  Supply contracts are very different than a bid to build something to specifications.
- sjg007 9y ago
  I like how they were turned in by their supplier for failing to pay.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    It's also listed as a text book case of what is wrong with procurement.
- epmaybe 9y ago
  since nobody mentioned already, there is an enjoyable film that was recently made about these two individuals called "War Dogs".
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    I was about to say the same -- great movie!
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Pity they had to do it fraudulently. This is not exactly a bespoke product though. 4 years in jail/7 months house arrest is not a great thing to have on your record either but I guess the payday made it worth it for them.

robertha 9y ago

I just registered on SAM and submitted a bid (something unrelated to this), but no idea what I was doing, I mean I put together a plan, had meaningful past performance, but overall I'm just hoping for the best. Would you happen to have any resources you followed? Or, suggestions that you believe led you to submitting a successful bid?

gbacon 9y ago
Was your bid on the recent SBIR/STTR solicitation by chance?
- robertha 9y ago
  Custom database product for EPA, seemed like a good fit. While I have no connections to EPA, I do some collaborative work with bio-engineering department at a university in Chicago, I'm a data scientist/developer/have a small team, I thought I'd try dipping my toes in something new.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    Any technical people you were able to have discussions with in preparing your bid would be good places to start with follow-on conversations. An acquaintance with a setup similar to yours does well with a virtuous cycle of rolling SBIR and STTR results into his commercial products, which fuel more SBIR wins. He also does lots of legwork in the form of hand delivering white papers he’s written in office calls with customers and potential customers during site visits. People do business with people — particularly those we like, know, and trust — not companies and agencies. Find someone whose headache you can make go away. Keep the conversation moving. This is a patient person’s game. Sometimes you’re planting seeds that will bloom later.
efm 9y ago
There are Procurement Technical Assistance centers in every region of the country. They are staffed by former procurement officers, and help companies learn how to sell to government and prime contractors. http://www.aptac-us.org/ http://www.aptac-us.org/

jseliger 9y ago

Are you saying this is how contracts are awarded on FedBiz Ops? I do grant writing for nonprofit and public agencies, along with some research-based businesses, and people interested in getting into this sort of thing will contact us, or people like us. We're a little like lawyers: it is possible to do everything right, but it's very hard and unlikely if it's your first rodeo. To take one small example: when you submit a budget, is it a program budget or a total project budget? Err and your application may be disqualified. Or consider indirect cost rates: http://seliger.com/2016/05/16/federally-approved-indirect-cost-rates-developing-federal-grant-proposal-budgets-de-minimus-arrived http://seliger.com/2016/05/16/federally-approved-indirect-co... . Again, either of these things are small, but multiply them x1000 and suddenly you'll understand why organizations hire us!

JPKab 9y ago

I'm sure you are aware of the 8a and other programs that allow you to win small contracts. If you think big projects are given on merit, then you are naive.