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> Wang was working under streamlined critical pay authority the agency has had since its landmark 1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots under which it co

> Wang was working under streamlined critical pay authority the agency has had since its landmark 1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots under which it could pay temporary, full-time employees higher than GS rates. Former Commissioner John Koskinen pointed out Congress did not re-up this authority in 2013, despite his entreaties to former Congressman Jason Chaffetz’s Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. > He says he applied to become a GS-15 or Senior Executive Service member so he could see through the assembler-to-Java project. But his approval didn’t come through until a week before his employment authority expired. By then he’d accepted another job. (GS-15 is $103k-$134k. https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-15 https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-15) So, basically: the IRS can't fix its software because it can't pay market rates for software engineers. It can't pay market rates for software engineers not because it lacks the budget for it, but because Congress won't let them. This is how it ends up with huge armies of bureaucrats doing things that could be easily automated.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
"armies of bureaucrats doing things that could easily be automates" = "jobs for people who you owe favors but don't want to put in a position where they might screw up something important" Elected officials have little incentive to make governing any more efficient. Bureaucrats themselves have some incentive to be more efficient because then they can spend more of their budget at their discretion.
hansjorg 9y ago
> This is how it ends up with huge armies of bureaucrats doing things that could be easily automated. Less bureaucracy and lower costs sounds like something anyone would agree on, but remember that a large part of congress has run on anti-tax promises. Hampering the efficiency of the IRS is one way of making good on that.
- ryanmarsh 9y ago
  This is not a partisan issue. Both parties have a long history of meddling with the IRS and generally making things worse.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    But the current administration is just so good at making things worse
  - guelo 9y ago
    No, you can't say it's bipartisan when Republicans have consistently sought to intentionally damage the IRS by underfunding it. They even tried to impeach the IRS chief because he wouldn't go along with their manufactured fake news scandal about the Tea Party.
    - warrenm 9y ago
      Republicans like Obama who reduced funding for the IRS multiple times while in office?
      - guelo 9y ago
        Obama had a republican Congress since 2010, which is when the IRS cuts started.
      - nitwit005 9y ago
        Odd that I remember him pushing to increase their budget then: http://www.govexec.com/management/2016/02/obama-would-hike-irs-budget-9-percent/125856/ http://www.govexec.com/management/2016/02/obama-would-hike-i... In general, it does seem true that Republicans haven't been interested in funding the IRS, even though they seem to believe testimony that more funding would increase government income.
      - BookmarkSaver 9y ago
        Did he reduce it, or was it simply reduced while he was in office. Because he had a Republican Congress for 75% of his presidency.
- imglorp 9y ago
  There's also the tax prep lobby, which is opposed to more automation, streamlining of code, and making tax prep irrelevant in general. Half the IRS could go away if most americans could do a simple 1040 on an IRS website. Eg: http://billmoyers.com/story/how-lobbying-by-tax-preparer-helps-keep-tax-day-complicated/ http://billmoyers.com/story/how-lobbying-by-tax-preparer-hel...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
abtinf 9y ago
The actual federal pay schedules are here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... The GS-15 range for the DC area is $135k-164k. For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- vkou 9y ago
  What kind of medical benefits are we talking about? How many years do you have to work for the government to get it? My employer's healthcare plan costs my employer ~20k/year as long as I'm employed, more if I had children, yet for some reason, nobody ever counts that as part of AMAFAGOPL salaries.
  - jasongill 9y ago
    I wasn't sure if "AMAFAGOPL" was a real acronym or just something you made up, so I searched for it on Google. The only result was a link to your comment - posted just 12 minutes ago. Google is getting (scary) good at indexing social content, it seems.
    - vkou 9y ago
      Amazon-microsoft-facebook-google-apple.
    - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
      There's several tiers of indexing in Google Search (it's a pyramid, with Instant near the top when that existed), and lots of social stuff is refreshed very frequently at the top of it. That is how recent Tweets show up in searches, as well. I'd be curious how often Googlebot hits HN.
  - evilduck 9y ago
gitgreen 9y ago
I work for a state government agency with a big software problem that has a hard time hiring for this reason. We've got some talented devs only due to the fact that they enjoy living in the area, not because they enjoy getting half(or less!) what they'd make in the private sector.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  I would work for the government (I did, a couple times) on projects I think will benefit my fellow citizens. This tax reform is not like that.
  - gitgreen 9y ago
    Converting Assembly to Java isn't "tax reform" and nobody is going to pat you on the back for making an economically disadvantageous decision just because you believe it benefits your fellow citizens. If you want warm fuzzies and to get paid then look at contracting. That's how we fill the gaps when we get literally 0 applicants because the FTE rate for our dev positions is laughably low. Public sector employers need to compete in the same job market as private sector employers. I can only speak about my department but we're hamstrung by bureaucratic and legislative inertia that is completely out of our control. I believe the mission of my department is an important one but if the private sector software market was more robust in my city and pay scales were just as disproportionate as they are now I would choose a private sector job 10 out of 10 times. The only ones here not constantly checking LinkedIn are the lifers that already have a fat pension and are reasonably close to retirement.
topspin 9y ago
"1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots ... Congress did not re-up this authority in 2013" That's 15 years of "streamlined critical pay" authority. And it appears that some number of these slots continued to exist until recently. Two decades of special authority to modernize this software, and nothing to show for it, except perhaps some patents... At some point you have to cut your loses.
- woobar 9y ago
  Nowhere it says that these slots were created to modernize software. These 40 slots are total amount of people (out of 80K employees) that could be paid above government rates. These slots were used to fill 168 positions over the 15 years.[1] [1] https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/press/press_tigta-2014-51.htm https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/press/press_tigta-2014-51.htm
aninteger 9y ago
$103k-$134k sounds very market rate to me... Maybe not for the San Francisco Bay Area but for areas outside of that it seems fine.
- frozenport 9y ago
  Not if you want a good senior developer. These guys are perpetually stuck with junior devs.
- miranda_rights 9y ago
  The IRS is based in D.C., which also has a high COL. Additionally, that's for the GS-15 paygrade, which requires a PhD and is the highest possible level -- so you can't be paid more than that. The corresponding paygrade for someone with a masters, or with a few years of experience, is $43-$56k[0]. It's definitely below market IMO. [0] https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-9 https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-9
  - gbacon 9y ago
    Who says the place of performance has to be DC?
- Deadron 9y ago
  As a developer in that area, its not super competitive. It is not even close to what a good senior dev is making. They also don't hire people at this level often because you are talking about a director level position. There is huge political push back. This is why its common for the contractors on the project to be paid twice as much as the employees.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    Yeah, as a developer in the area with under 5 years of professional experience I am already at the top end of that range. I did no job hopping, do not work for a company that is particularly well known for high pay and did not graduate from a school with a very well known CS program. I have also heard from former co-workers with similar levels of experience who have moved on to other companies that they are making similar amounts. It is above average for the area (across all levels of experience, for a very experienced developer it probably isn't), but it is not very far above average, so I would expect someone capable of handling such a massive and critical project to be making significantly more.
yazaddaruvala 9y ago
Offer contracts for $130k + Green Card after one year. You'll get some of the best candidates from India and China lining up. I work at Amazon in Seattle right now, but I'd take the pay cut to jump the India green card line. Probably go back to Amazon right after I got the green card tho.
gbacon 9y ago
Compensation is a vector, not a scalar. GS employees almost cannot be fired, government-employee unions protect their members from not the private sector but from the government, they get better than ACA health care, and their retirement is guaranteed by an entity that can print all the money it wants.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

"armies of bureaucrats doing things that could easily be automates" = "jobs for people who you owe favors but don't want to put in a position where they might screw up something important" Elected officials have little incentive to make governing any more efficient. Bureaucrats themselves have some incentive to be more efficient because then they can spend more of their budget at their discretion.

hansjorg 9y ago

> This is how it ends up with huge armies of bureaucrats doing things that could be easily automated. Less bureaucracy and lower costs sounds like something anyone would agree on, but remember that a large part of congress has run on anti-tax promises. Hampering the efficiency of the IRS is one way of making good on that.

ryanmarsh 9y ago
This is not a partisan issue. Both parties have a long history of meddling with the IRS and generally making things worse.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  But the current administration is just so good at making things worse
- guelo 9y ago
  No, you can't say it's bipartisan when Republicans have consistently sought to intentionally damage the IRS by underfunding it. They even tried to impeach the IRS chief because he wouldn't go along with their manufactured fake news scandal about the Tea Party.
  - warrenm 9y ago
    Republicans like Obama who reduced funding for the IRS multiple times while in office?
    - guelo 9y ago
      Obama had a republican Congress since 2010, which is when the IRS cuts started.
    - nitwit005 9y ago
      Odd that I remember him pushing to increase their budget then: http://www.govexec.com/management/2016/02/obama-would-hike-irs-budget-9-percent/125856/ http://www.govexec.com/management/2016/02/obama-would-hike-i... In general, it does seem true that Republicans haven't been interested in funding the IRS, even though they seem to believe testimony that more funding would increase government income.
    - BookmarkSaver 9y ago
      Did he reduce it, or was it simply reduced while he was in office. Because he had a Republican Congress for 75% of his presidency.
imglorp 9y ago
There's also the tax prep lobby, which is opposed to more automation, streamlining of code, and making tax prep irrelevant in general. Half the IRS could go away if most americans could do a simple 1040 on an IRS website. Eg: http://billmoyers.com/story/how-lobbying-by-tax-preparer-helps-keep-tax-day-complicated/ http://billmoyers.com/story/how-lobbying-by-tax-preparer-hel...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

abtinf 9y ago

The actual federal pay schedules are here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2018/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... The GS-15 range for the DC area is $135k-164k. For federal government employees, salary only represents about half of their total compensation, which includes a lifetime inflation adjusted pension and medical benefits.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vkou 9y ago
What kind of medical benefits are we talking about? How many years do you have to work for the government to get it? My employer's healthcare plan costs my employer ~20k/year as long as I'm employed, more if I had children, yet for some reason, nobody ever counts that as part of AMAFAGOPL salaries.
- jasongill 9y ago
  I wasn't sure if "AMAFAGOPL" was a real acronym or just something you made up, so I searched for it on Google. The only result was a link to your comment - posted just 12 minutes ago. Google is getting (scary) good at indexing social content, it seems.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Amazon-microsoft-facebook-google-apple.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    There's several tiers of indexing in Google Search (it's a pyramid, with Instant near the top when that existed), and lots of social stuff is refreshed very frequently at the top of it. That is how recent Tweets show up in searches, as well. I'd be curious how often Googlebot hits HN.
- evilduck 9y ago

gitgreen 9y ago

I work for a state government agency with a big software problem that has a hard time hiring for this reason. We've got some talented devs only due to the fact that they enjoy living in the area, not because they enjoy getting half(or less!) what they'd make in the private sector.

rbanffy 9y ago
I would work for the government (I did, a couple times) on projects I think will benefit my fellow citizens. This tax reform is not like that.
- gitgreen 9y ago
  Converting Assembly to Java isn't "tax reform" and nobody is going to pat you on the back for making an economically disadvantageous decision just because you believe it benefits your fellow citizens. If you want warm fuzzies and to get paid then look at contracting. That's how we fill the gaps when we get literally 0 applicants because the FTE rate for our dev positions is laughably low. Public sector employers need to compete in the same job market as private sector employers. I can only speak about my department but we're hamstrung by bureaucratic and legislative inertia that is completely out of our control. I believe the mission of my department is an important one but if the private sector software market was more robust in my city and pay scales were just as disproportionate as they are now I would choose a private sector job 10 out of 10 times. The only ones here not constantly checking LinkedIn are the lifers that already have a fat pension and are reasonably close to retirement.

topspin 9y ago

"1998 restructuring. It gave the IRS 40 slots ... Congress did not re-up this authority in 2013" That's 15 years of "streamlined critical pay" authority. And it appears that some number of these slots continued to exist until recently. Two decades of special authority to modernize this software, and nothing to show for it, except perhaps some patents... At some point you have to cut your loses.

woobar 9y ago
Nowhere it says that these slots were created to modernize software. These 40 slots are total amount of people (out of 80K employees) that could be paid above government rates. These slots were used to fill 168 positions over the 15 years.[1] [1] https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/press/press_tigta-2014-51.htm https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/press/press_tigta-2014-51.htm

aninteger 9y ago

$103k-$134k sounds very market rate to me... Maybe not for the San Francisco Bay Area but for areas outside of that it seems fine.

frozenport 9y ago
Not if you want a good senior developer. These guys are perpetually stuck with junior devs.
miranda_rights 9y ago
The IRS is based in D.C., which also has a high COL. Additionally, that's for the GS-15 paygrade, which requires a PhD and is the highest possible level -- so you can't be paid more than that. The corresponding paygrade for someone with a masters, or with a few years of experience, is $43-$56k[0]. It's definitely below market IMO. [0] https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-9 https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2017/GS-9
- gbacon 9y ago
  Who says the place of performance has to be DC?
Deadron 9y ago
As a developer in that area, its not super competitive. It is not even close to what a good senior dev is making. They also don't hire people at this level often because you are talking about a director level position. There is huge political push back. This is why its common for the contractors on the project to be paid twice as much as the employees.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Yeah, as a developer in the area with under 5 years of professional experience I am already at the top end of that range. I did no job hopping, do not work for a company that is particularly well known for high pay and did not graduate from a school with a very well known CS program. I have also heard from former co-workers with similar levels of experience who have moved on to other companies that they are making similar amounts. It is above average for the area (across all levels of experience, for a very experienced developer it probably isn't), but it is not very far above average, so I would expect someone capable of handling such a massive and critical project to be making significantly more.

yazaddaruvala 9y ago

Offer contracts for $130k + Green Card after one year. You'll get some of the best candidates from India and China lining up. I work at Amazon in Seattle right now, but I'd take the pay cut to jump the India green card line. Probably go back to Amazon right after I got the green card tho.

gbacon 9y ago

Compensation is a vector, not a scalar. GS employees almost cannot be fired, government-employee unions protect their members from not the private sector but from the government, they get better than ACA health care, and their retirement is guaranteed by an entity that can print all the money it wants.