12 ms·

“Loving Your Enemies” (1957)

77 points by meri_dian 9y ago

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this was at the very center of Jesus’ thinking, is this: that hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. [tapping on pulpit] It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that’s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, that it doesn’t cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Many of the so called and supposedly tolerant "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" would do well to understand this principle. While indeed they may have a valid point about the vile hatred which their enemies are spreading, many of them become overridden by that hatred and echo it back creating a negative feedback loop. >And this is what Jesus means, I think, in this very passage when he says, "Love your enemy." And it’s significant that he does not say, "Like your enemy." Like is a sentimental something, an affectionate something. There are a lot of people that I find it difficult to like. I don’t like what they do to me. I don’t like what they say about me and other people. I don’t like their attitudes. I don’t like some of the things they’re doing. I don’t like them. But Jesus says love them. And love is greater than like. Love is understanding, redemptive goodwill for all men, so that you love everybody, because God loves them. You refuse to do anything that will defeat an individual, because you have agape in your soul. And here you come to the point that you love the individual who does the evil deed, while hating the deed that the person does. This is what Jesus means when he says, "Love your enemy." This is the way to do it. When the opportunity presents itself when you can defeat your enemy, you must not do it. As he says, you don't have to like your enemy, but you should strive to understand them and where they are coming from as a human being; rather than writing them off as irrevocably stupid and completely irrational, as is done repetitively by either side in the 2 party system. This is not merely a religious/moral principle, but a strategic/practical one: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle" -Sun Tzu, The Art of War
- andrewclunn 9y ago
  In before this topic get's locked. Jesus was an idiot. Turn the other cheek and you just get slapped twice. Loving your enemies is how you lose to those you could easily defeat, and banking on your enemy's mercy is a great way to get yourself destroyed.
- danharaj 9y ago
  I find it interesting that you find it important to chastise "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" to love their enemies, but not those who, say, make homosexuals their enemies to love their enemies-- the ones that they willfully choose to make their enemies in fact. I could drive a truck through your blind spot.
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    I thought it was obviously implied and also made explicit when I said they "have a valid point about the vile hatred which their enemies are spreading". Hate is obviously the problem we are discussing here, and how to deal with it effectively.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    I see it differently. Those groups in this example purport to support love and tolerance yet simultaneously hate on those on the other side. The other side appears to not even try to be tolerant, so I would think it goes without saying that they should love their enemies.
  - Vaskivo 9y ago
    I think that it is because some think that the "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" hold contradictory views. While the (less extreme) homophobes and racist hold a "I don't like you, please go away. And if you could change to be more like me I will welcome you", one the other side you have "We should accept everybody, equally, regardless of whatever characteristic you may have. Except if you disagree with the previous statement." I disagree with both ideas. But I find the former more honest and at peace with their hate than the latter.
  - deleted 9y ago
hprotagonist 9y ago
So somehow the "isness" of our present nature is out of harmony with the eternal "oughtness" that forever confronts us. And this simply means this: That within the best of us, there is some evil, and within the worst of us, there is some good. When we come to see this, we take a different attitude toward individuals. The person who hates you most has some good in him; even the nation that hates you most has some good in it; even the race that hates you most has some good in it. And conversely, within those people and nations you most love, there's some bad. The role of the prohpet is to say both these things to their peers, who generally don't want to hear either.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nabla9 9y ago
"Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error." – Linus Pauling
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hprotagonist 9y ago
I'm also reminded of C.S. Lewis here: “Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one's first feeling, 'Thank God, even they aren't quite so bad as that,' or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils. You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later on we shall wish to see grey as black, and then to see white itself as black. Finally we shall insist on seeing everything -- God and our friends and ourselves included -- as bad, and not be able to stop doing it: we shall be fixed for ever in a universe of pure hatred.”

77 points by meri_dian 9y ago

>I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this was at the very center of Jesus’ thinking, is this: that hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. [tapping on pulpit] It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that’s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, that it doesn’t cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Many of the so called and supposedly tolerant "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" would do well to understand this principle. While indeed they may have a valid point about the vile hatred which their enemies are spreading, many of them become overridden by that hatred and echo it back creating a negative feedback loop. >And this is what Jesus means, I think, in this very passage when he says, "Love your enemy." And it’s significant that he does not say, "Like your enemy." Like is a sentimental something, an affectionate something. There are a lot of people that I find it difficult to like. I don’t like what they do to me. I don’t like what they say about me and other people. I don’t like their attitudes. I don’t like some of the things they’re doing. I don’t like them. But Jesus says love them. And love is greater than like. Love is understanding, redemptive goodwill for all men, so that you love everybody, because God loves them. You refuse to do anything that will defeat an individual, because you have agape in your soul. And here you come to the point that you love the individual who does the evil deed, while hating the deed that the person does. This is what Jesus means when he says, "Love your enemy." This is the way to do it. When the opportunity presents itself when you can defeat your enemy, you must not do it. As he says, you don't have to like your enemy, but you should strive to understand them and where they are coming from as a human being; rather than writing them off as irrevocably stupid and completely irrational, as is done repetitively by either side in the 2 party system. This is not merely a religious/moral principle, but a strategic/practical one: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle" -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

andrewclunn 9y ago
In before this topic get's locked. Jesus was an idiot. Turn the other cheek and you just get slapped twice. Loving your enemies is how you lose to those you could easily defeat, and banking on your enemy's mercy is a great way to get yourself destroyed.
danharaj 9y ago
I find it interesting that you find it important to chastise "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" to love their enemies, but not those who, say, make homosexuals their enemies to love their enemies-- the ones that they willfully choose to make their enemies in fact. I could drive a truck through your blind spot.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  I thought it was obviously implied and also made explicit when I said they "have a valid point about the vile hatred which their enemies are spreading". Hate is obviously the problem we are discussing here, and how to deal with it effectively.
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  I see it differently. Those groups in this example purport to support love and tolerance yet simultaneously hate on those on the other side. The other side appears to not even try to be tolerant, so I would think it goes without saying that they should love their enemies.
- Vaskivo 9y ago
  I think that it is because some think that the "social justice warriors" and the "PC crowd" hold contradictory views. While the (less extreme) homophobes and racist hold a "I don't like you, please go away. And if you could change to be more like me I will welcome you", one the other side you have "We should accept everybody, equally, regardless of whatever characteristic you may have. Except if you disagree with the previous statement." I disagree with both ideas. But I find the former more honest and at peace with their hate than the latter.
- deleted 9y ago

hprotagonist 9y ago

So somehow the "isness" of our present nature is out of harmony with the eternal "oughtness" that forever confronts us. And this simply means this: That within the best of us, there is some evil, and within the worst of us, there is some good. When we come to see this, we take a different attitude toward individuals. The person who hates you most has some good in him; even the nation that hates you most has some good in it; even the race that hates you most has some good in it. And conversely, within those people and nations you most love, there's some bad. The role of the prohpet is to say both these things to their peers, who generally don't want to hear either.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

nabla9 9y ago

"Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error." – Linus Pauling

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hprotagonist 9y ago

I'm also reminded of C.S. Lewis here: “Suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper. Then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not be quite true, or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one's first feeling, 'Thank God, even they aren't quite so bad as that,' or is it a feeling of disappointment, and even a determination to cling to the first story for the sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible? If it is the second then it is, I am afraid, the first step in a process which, if followed to the end, will make us into devils. You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later on we shall wish to see grey as black, and then to see white itself as black. Finally we shall insist on seeing everything -- God and our friends and ourselves included -- as bad, and not be able to stop doing it: we shall be fixed for ever in a universe of pure hatred.”