53 ms·

Tallinn is not very big though compared to other European capitals, also they have form for it as it was former USSR. They never even put up barriers when you h

Tallinn is not very big though compared to other European capitals, also they have form for it as it was former USSR. They never even put up barriers when you had to pay (trains would have inspectors and buses were self ticket stamping).

dx034 9y ago
Few German stations have barriers. It's actually "profitable" in most cities to never buy a ticket, checks are rare. I guess German mentality helps avoiding widespread abuse (and the fact that it's a crime under German law).
- conanbatt 9y ago
  Germany is the only country I ever visited where i feared the ticket inspector. I've seen them put fines. They go undercover in the metro: sometimes its just a dude sitting there suddenly takes the gadget out and yells out a control. I've had foreign friends, as tourists having to pay the fine. In SF you can simply not pay,there is no control. In argentina, the bus driver might not start the bus if you don't pay, turning the whole bus people against you. In germany, you get a damn ticket very fast, which you can pay with credit card. I once didnt pay the ticket and felt like Jason Bourne.
  - dx034 9y ago
    Problem is that this can get you in legal trouble after a few times. While first offender cases always get dropped, you'll get a court date if you get caught too often. I once witnessed a case where someone had to spend a short time in jail because of that. He got caught 13 times over two years (not sure how he managed that) but still appears quite harsh. The fact that Germany doesn't have massively overcrowded jails shows that most people end up paying at some point.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      And get caught dodging rail fairs you will often be fired there was a high profile case of a highly paid financier in the City (uk) getting fired for this he probably wont be able to work in finance again.
    - conanbatt 9y ago
      Its a criminal offense not to pay a public transportation ticket? Damn. I really was like Jason Bourne.
      - whyever 9y ago
        In practice, it's punished as a criminal offense only if you are a serial offender.
      - billforsternz 9y ago
        I am glad to hear this is a thing. I was apprehensive about travelling to the other side of the world by myself recently and confessed to my wife I wish I could be more like Jason Bourne. "He never fumbles for his passport, misplaced his tickets, worries about losing his medication". This became a theme as I reported my progress. On one leg I sat opposite a high powered cop (I could see the files he was working on). I reported back to my wife with pride that I overtook the action man in the race to passport control, "just like Jason Bourne".
      - pgeorgi 9y ago
        https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/265a.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/265a.html StGB means criminal law. (1) means that using public telecommunication services (eg. public phones, maybe paid public wifi?), public transport or entering an event with the intent not to pay the fee can lead to jail up to one year or a fine, unless there's another law that mandates a bigger punishment. (2) means that even the attempt is a crime (ie. you don't have to succeed), otherwise them catching you would make you exempt from that law (as long as you paid up). The first few incidents can usually be settled with the fine set by the transportation authority, both to avoid too much work in the legal system and because you might legitimately forget it every now and then (and that means no intent = not criminal = they'd lose a case based on this law). After too many occurences they'll claim that you can't forget it that often, which helps build a case in court.
  - pound 9y ago
    There are fare inspectors in SF. May not be too often but checks are happening.
    - conanbatt 9y ago
      Anecdotally, I see people not pay the bus almost every stop i use it. Muni is anarchy. Not to mention that the way to pay for cash doesnt give out change, which means taht if you dont have a clipper card, you just dont pay anything at all.
- lispm 9y ago
  > It's actually "profitable" in most cities to never buy a ticket, checks are rare. The operators are adjusting this so that there are just enough controls to have enough payments. This is an optimization problem and they know what they are doing and how much.
- jedrek 9y ago
  Every time I visit Berlin I get my ticket checked, like clockwork.
- cleeus 9y ago
  I think it's not profitable. I work in Berlin and commute to work by public transport every day. You currently pay 60EUR if you get caught and I get checked at least twice a week. Repeated offenders pay more and get additional sanctions. For 60EUR you get a ticket for a month (in a yearly subscription).
- whyever 9y ago
  Really depends on the city! In some my ticket was checked twice a year, in others more like twice a week.
r3bl 9y ago
Albeit a small data point, I've used public transport in more than a dozen of countries in Europe and saw barriers near public transports in three countries.
- dx034 9y ago
  The big problem with barriers is that you need standardised tickets. If you want to allow a mix of local tickets and rail tickets (to allow one fare for the whole journey) it'll be close to impossible to build a barrier that works for all of those. The cities that do have barriers (e.g. London) only accept specific tickets on those lines and are large enough to run their own system.
  - cr1895 9y ago
    > If you want to allow a mix of local tickets and rail tickets (to allow one fare for the whole journey) it'll be close to impossible to build a barrier that works for all of those. Let's take Rotterdam or Amsterdam as an example. Both of these stations are closed off to non-ticket holders. You can access Dutch trains as well as international trains like Thalys to France and ICE to Germany. Access is granted by individual tickets bought from the Dutch railway kiosks, by Dutch public transport cards, or by printed/digital QR-code tickets from any of the three rail companies. There is only one type of barrier. There are not isolated entrances for particular lines. Maybe I misunderstand you, because what you say is close to impossible seems to work just fine in the NL.
    - dx034 9y ago
      That works because the Netherlands standardised all tickets. German ICEs and Thalys are one of the rare exceptions and have a work-around. That needs one central body organising and standardising travel across the country. Few countries operate that way. But you're right, it's actually not impossible just unlikely to happen. And I must say I really enjoyed the Dutch system where you don't have to print paper every time.
      - 9y ago

dx034 9y ago

Few German stations have barriers. It's actually "profitable" in most cities to never buy a ticket, checks are rare. I guess German mentality helps avoiding widespread abuse (and the fact that it's a crime under German law).

conanbatt 9y ago
Germany is the only country I ever visited where i feared the ticket inspector. I've seen them put fines. They go undercover in the metro: sometimes its just a dude sitting there suddenly takes the gadget out and yells out a control. I've had foreign friends, as tourists having to pay the fine. In SF you can simply not pay,there is no control. In argentina, the bus driver might not start the bus if you don't pay, turning the whole bus people against you. In germany, you get a damn ticket very fast, which you can pay with credit card. I once didnt pay the ticket and felt like Jason Bourne.
- dx034 9y ago
  Problem is that this can get you in legal trouble after a few times. While first offender cases always get dropped, you'll get a court date if you get caught too often. I once witnessed a case where someone had to spend a short time in jail because of that. He got caught 13 times over two years (not sure how he managed that) but still appears quite harsh. The fact that Germany doesn't have massively overcrowded jails shows that most people end up paying at some point.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    And get caught dodging rail fairs you will often be fired there was a high profile case of a highly paid financier in the City (uk) getting fired for this he probably wont be able to work in finance again.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    Its a criminal offense not to pay a public transportation ticket? Damn. I really was like Jason Bourne.
    - whyever 9y ago
      In practice, it's punished as a criminal offense only if you are a serial offender.
    - billforsternz 9y ago
      I am glad to hear this is a thing. I was apprehensive about travelling to the other side of the world by myself recently and confessed to my wife I wish I could be more like Jason Bourne. "He never fumbles for his passport, misplaced his tickets, worries about losing his medication". This became a theme as I reported my progress. On one leg I sat opposite a high powered cop (I could see the files he was working on). I reported back to my wife with pride that I overtook the action man in the race to passport control, "just like Jason Bourne".
    - pgeorgi 9y ago
      https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/265a.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/265a.html StGB means criminal law. (1) means that using public telecommunication services (eg. public phones, maybe paid public wifi?), public transport or entering an event with the intent not to pay the fee can lead to jail up to one year or a fine, unless there's another law that mandates a bigger punishment. (2) means that even the attempt is a crime (ie. you don't have to succeed), otherwise them catching you would make you exempt from that law (as long as you paid up). The first few incidents can usually be settled with the fine set by the transportation authority, both to avoid too much work in the legal system and because you might legitimately forget it every now and then (and that means no intent = not criminal = they'd lose a case based on this law). After too many occurences they'll claim that you can't forget it that often, which helps build a case in court.
- pound 9y ago
  There are fare inspectors in SF. May not be too often but checks are happening.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    Anecdotally, I see people not pay the bus almost every stop i use it. Muni is anarchy. Not to mention that the way to pay for cash doesnt give out change, which means taht if you dont have a clipper card, you just dont pay anything at all.
lispm 9y ago
> It's actually "profitable" in most cities to never buy a ticket, checks are rare. The operators are adjusting this so that there are just enough controls to have enough payments. This is an optimization problem and they know what they are doing and how much.
jedrek 9y ago
Every time I visit Berlin I get my ticket checked, like clockwork.
cleeus 9y ago
I think it's not profitable. I work in Berlin and commute to work by public transport every day. You currently pay 60EUR if you get caught and I get checked at least twice a week. Repeated offenders pay more and get additional sanctions. For 60EUR you get a ticket for a month (in a yearly subscription).
whyever 9y ago
Really depends on the city! In some my ticket was checked twice a year, in others more like twice a week.

r3bl 9y ago

Albeit a small data point, I've used public transport in more than a dozen of countries in Europe and saw barriers near public transports in three countries.

dx034 9y ago
The big problem with barriers is that you need standardised tickets. If you want to allow a mix of local tickets and rail tickets (to allow one fare for the whole journey) it'll be close to impossible to build a barrier that works for all of those. The cities that do have barriers (e.g. London) only accept specific tickets on those lines and are large enough to run their own system.
- cr1895 9y ago
  > If you want to allow a mix of local tickets and rail tickets (to allow one fare for the whole journey) it'll be close to impossible to build a barrier that works for all of those. Let's take Rotterdam or Amsterdam as an example. Both of these stations are closed off to non-ticket holders. You can access Dutch trains as well as international trains like Thalys to France and ICE to Germany. Access is granted by individual tickets bought from the Dutch railway kiosks, by Dutch public transport cards, or by printed/digital QR-code tickets from any of the three rail companies. There is only one type of barrier. There are not isolated entrances for particular lines. Maybe I misunderstand you, because what you say is close to impossible seems to work just fine in the NL.
  - dx034 9y ago
    That works because the Netherlands standardised all tickets. German ICEs and Thalys are one of the rare exceptions and have a work-around. That needs one central body organising and standardising travel across the country. Few countries operate that way. But you're right, it's actually not impossible just unlikely to happen. And I must say I really enjoyed the Dutch system where you don't have to print paper every time.
    - 9y ago