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This is such a bizarre stance. "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. In the UK t

This is such a bizarre stance. "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. In the UK the concept of people taking up space in coffee shops and not spending enough is not limited to people on laptops. You're just as likely to see an entire crowd of teenagers with one drink between them, or a group of mothers with pushchairs hanging about for hours (though I suspect the mother groups are good customers to have). Personally I make sure I buy something at least every 30-45 minutes, and then relocate somewhere else if it gets busy. Cafes are rarely busy during the work day, so it's not like I'm depriving them of space. But I've never come across a cafe with the approach of the ones in the article. Pretentious nonsense like that doesn't survive long here. If you want people to spend more money, ask them to leave if they haven't bought anything within the last hour. That's a simple rule that's easy to enforce, don't just blame a subset of customers.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
You have to find the space that's compatible with your needs. Don't blame the no-laptop space for being what it is, any more than the laptop-friendly one. Perhaps its not just about spending money. A coffee shop is (by some people's ideas) a place for folks to socialize. Those other 'offenders' are socializing, so are compatible with those spaces. Sitting in silence at a machine makes for a boring space, which drives away the other sort of customer.
- robotmay 9y ago
  I can understand that. I don't think I've come across many shops near me that don't have a good mix of different people in there during the day, though. I've been in one recently that was largely empty aside from people at laptops, but it was 4pm and everywhere was quiet. Cardiff is pretty chill, however, and I've not yet come across the situation described in the parent article. But we do get hip trends about 5 years after everyone else!
- anonacct37 9y ago
  We can discuss what they are doing and also vote with our money. I'd hate to be kicked out of a shop because I'm reading a book. Or not talking. As you said: maybe it's their right to require socializing, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Well, except that laptops are a plague upon the industry. Its not in the same league as reading a book.
    - maehwasu 9y ago
      Yeah, the laptop user might actually break out and MAKE something. Quelle horreur!
      - kenshi 9y ago
        It's more a case of too many laptop users in a space, transform what was meant to be a social space into a work space. It changes the vibe and the mood.
        TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
        Not all laptop users are working.
        kenshi 9y ago
        A space filled with laptop users gives off a work vibe, and a somewhat anti-social vibe too, regardless of what they are actually doing on their machines.
- latte 9y ago
  I don't want to come across as grumpy - this is an honest question. What is so valuable in the guests' "socializing" with each other? If I come to a cafe with my date or friends, I'll feel more comfortable sitting among people with laptops rather than among noisy teenagers mentioned in the gp comment.
  - jonnycomputer 9y ago
    ah, well, when the laptop users start complaining that the people talking to each other are too loud?
    - corobo 9y ago
      Remind them they set up their workspace in a public place
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Do you feel free to talk out loud when everyone else is silent? It can be stultifying. Like entering a library. Many folks have a coffee shop because they want the community to meet there. A romantic notion, to be sure.
  - ksk 9y ago
    >What is so valuable in the guests' "socializing" with each other? Its the same value as socializing at any other venue. Or taking it back further, whats the value in socializing at all? Maybe there isn't any value for you. I personally prioritize meeting new people and forming local connections, over virtual long-distance connections. A cafe is a good place to do that, if people are open to the idea. AFAICT people glued to their laptops, aren't. > I'll feel more comfortable sitting among people with laptops rather than among noisy teenagers mentioned in the gp comment. Those aren't the only two options.
    - hueving 9y ago
      What meaningful local connections have you formed taking to strangers in a coffee shop? I listen to the conversations people have at coffee shops with random people and it's been pointless smalltalk every time so far.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- thaeli 9y ago
  I don't blame them, but it's reasonable for me to share my experience as a customer on review sites. So they shouldn't blame me for the one-star Yelp review they're getting, either.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Its unreasonable. You walk into a place with "no laptops please" posted with a laptop and settle in for the afternoon, get asked to finish up, and somehow that's their fault? You want to tank a coffee shop for enforcing rules of etiquette? Sounds spiteful and childish to me.
protonimitate 9y ago
My question is how many cafes really make money off of people who come in and sit for an hour or two and order more than one drink. Don't most people just stop by, grab a cup, and then go on their way? I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. In my experience the only people who DO hang out at cafes and order multiple items are those doing work for extended periods of time.
- jonnycomputer 9y ago
  oh, gosh, how many hours have I spent just hanging out at cafes shooting the breeze?
  - vilhelm_s 9y ago
    But are you constantly buying things when doing so? If I meet up with a friend at a cafe, it seems we usually just buy some coffee when we get there and then sit there and chat without buying more.
    - jonnycomputer 9y ago
      back when I had the time to do that I didn't have so much money. probably a drink per 1.5 hours or so.
    - pwthornton 9y ago
      People chatting may buy more food and drinks, but an important difference is that people on laptops often take up entire tables that can seat a bunch of people. It's not just how much someone buys but how much space they take up. There have been times when I was walking with someone to grab coffee and chat, and we passed up going to that place because all of the tables were taken by people alone on their laptops. Some places have a policy that you can only use a laptop at the bar seating, which eliminates the issue of people on laptops taking up a ton of space.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. I've had my entire social life based on hanging out like this at one point in my life. (Late 90's, early 2000's) It was in a walkable neighborhood, the kind where a friend might invite you to dinner because she saw you from her apartment balcony. I'd have to say those were some of the best years of my life.
paulcole 9y ago
> "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. Isn’t this the ideal outcome though? Your actions show you’re not the audience the business owner wants.
stcredzero 9y ago
If you want people to spend more money, ask them to leave if they haven't bought anything within the last hour. House of Pies in Houston will straight-up charge you rent if you don't order something.
illnewsthat 9y ago
What are you buying every 30-45 minutes?
- robotmay 9y ago
  Coffee, but there's obviously a limit as to how often you can do that ;) I'll normally alternate coffee, soft-drinks, and snacks for a couple of hours, then bail out, grab lunch, and afterwards head to a different shop. It's not a hugely regular thing for me, as I mostly work from home, so I guess I can afford to spend a little more than the serial coffee shop dwellers.
kenshi 9y ago
Would you consider it pretentious for a library to ask noisy guests to leave? If someone wants to run and maintain a social space, they have every right to prevent it from becoming a cheap office or work space. I imagine most coffee shop and café owners intentionally didn't choose to go into the office rental or co-working space business.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

You have to find the space that's compatible with your needs. Don't blame the no-laptop space for being what it is, any more than the laptop-friendly one. Perhaps its not just about spending money. A coffee shop is (by some people's ideas) a place for folks to socialize. Those other 'offenders' are socializing, so are compatible with those spaces. Sitting in silence at a machine makes for a boring space, which drives away the other sort of customer.

robotmay 9y ago
I can understand that. I don't think I've come across many shops near me that don't have a good mix of different people in there during the day, though. I've been in one recently that was largely empty aside from people at laptops, but it was 4pm and everywhere was quiet. Cardiff is pretty chill, however, and I've not yet come across the situation described in the parent article. But we do get hip trends about 5 years after everyone else!
anonacct37 9y ago
We can discuss what they are doing and also vote with our money. I'd hate to be kicked out of a shop because I'm reading a book. Or not talking. As you said: maybe it's their right to require socializing, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Well, except that laptops are a plague upon the industry. Its not in the same league as reading a book.
  - maehwasu 9y ago
    Yeah, the laptop user might actually break out and MAKE something. Quelle horreur!
    - kenshi 9y ago
      It's more a case of too many laptop users in a space, transform what was meant to be a social space into a work space. It changes the vibe and the mood.
      - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
        Not all laptop users are working.
        kenshi 9y ago
        A space filled with laptop users gives off a work vibe, and a somewhat anti-social vibe too, regardless of what they are actually doing on their machines.
latte 9y ago
I don't want to come across as grumpy - this is an honest question. What is so valuable in the guests' "socializing" with each other? If I come to a cafe with my date or friends, I'll feel more comfortable sitting among people with laptops rather than among noisy teenagers mentioned in the gp comment.
- jonnycomputer 9y ago
  ah, well, when the laptop users start complaining that the people talking to each other are too loud?
  - corobo 9y ago
    Remind them they set up their workspace in a public place
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Do you feel free to talk out loud when everyone else is silent? It can be stultifying. Like entering a library. Many folks have a coffee shop because they want the community to meet there. A romantic notion, to be sure.
- ksk 9y ago
  >What is so valuable in the guests' "socializing" with each other? Its the same value as socializing at any other venue. Or taking it back further, whats the value in socializing at all? Maybe there isn't any value for you. I personally prioritize meeting new people and forming local connections, over virtual long-distance connections. A cafe is a good place to do that, if people are open to the idea. AFAICT people glued to their laptops, aren't. > I'll feel more comfortable sitting among people with laptops rather than among noisy teenagers mentioned in the gp comment. Those aren't the only two options.
  - hueving 9y ago
    What meaningful local connections have you formed taking to strangers in a coffee shop? I listen to the conversations people have at coffee shops with random people and it's been pointless smalltalk every time so far.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
thaeli 9y ago
I don't blame them, but it's reasonable for me to share my experience as a customer on review sites. So they shouldn't blame me for the one-star Yelp review they're getting, either.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Its unreasonable. You walk into a place with "no laptops please" posted with a laptop and settle in for the afternoon, get asked to finish up, and somehow that's their fault? You want to tank a coffee shop for enforcing rules of etiquette? Sounds spiteful and childish to me.

protonimitate 9y ago

My question is how many cafes really make money off of people who come in and sit for an hour or two and order more than one drink. Don't most people just stop by, grab a cup, and then go on their way? I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. In my experience the only people who DO hang out at cafes and order multiple items are those doing work for extended periods of time.

jonnycomputer 9y ago
oh, gosh, how many hours have I spent just hanging out at cafes shooting the breeze?
- vilhelm_s 9y ago
  But are you constantly buying things when doing so? If I meet up with a friend at a cafe, it seems we usually just buy some coffee when we get there and then sit there and chat without buying more.
  - jonnycomputer 9y ago
    back when I had the time to do that I didn't have so much money. probably a drink per 1.5 hours or so.
  - pwthornton 9y ago
    People chatting may buy more food and drinks, but an important difference is that people on laptops often take up entire tables that can seat a bunch of people. It's not just how much someone buys but how much space they take up. There have been times when I was walking with someone to grab coffee and chat, and we passed up going to that place because all of the tables were taken by people alone on their laptops. Some places have a policy that you can only use a laptop at the bar seating, which eliminates the issue of people on laptops taking up a ton of space.
stcredzero 9y ago
I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. I've had my entire social life based on hanging out like this at one point in my life. (Late 90's, early 2000's) It was in a walkable neighborhood, the kind where a friend might invite you to dinner because she saw you from her apartment balcony. I'd have to say those were some of the best years of my life.

paulcole 9y ago

> "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. Isn’t this the ideal outcome though? Your actions show you’re not the audience the business owner wants.

stcredzero 9y ago

If you want people to spend more money, ask them to leave if they haven't bought anything within the last hour. House of Pies in Houston will straight-up charge you rent if you don't order something.

illnewsthat 9y ago

What are you buying every 30-45 minutes?

robotmay 9y ago
Coffee, but there's obviously a limit as to how often you can do that ;) I'll normally alternate coffee, soft-drinks, and snacks for a couple of hours, then bail out, grab lunch, and afterwards head to a different shop. It's not a hugely regular thing for me, as I mostly work from home, so I guess I can afford to spend a little more than the serial coffee shop dwellers.

kenshi 9y ago

Would you consider it pretentious for a library to ask noisy guests to leave? If someone wants to run and maintain a social space, they have every right to prevent it from becoming a cheap office or work space. I imagine most coffee shop and café owners intentionally didn't choose to go into the office rental or co-working space business.