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Much the same could be said about native Norway in comparison to the US or UK. There is a documentary about identical twins from China. One ends up in Norway th

Much the same could be said about native Norway in comparison to the US or UK. There is a documentary about identical twins from China. One ends up in Norway the other in the US. They meet many years later. You see quite radically different child raising. Norwegians focus on independence and freedom for the child. The Americans focus on lots of grownup controlled activities. My feeling is Norwegians focus on independence while Americans focus on ambition. Americans are more focused on their childrens enrichment and making them perform. I notice e.g. from American relatives how much earlier they get school work, tests and academic work. Norwegian childhood is more play and social interaction oriented. We focus inteaching children self control. When I came to the US I was surprised how out of controll American teenagers are. They don’t seem to function without lots of rules and regulations. They don’t seem used to regulating and controlling themselves. I think this creates a society were nobody fully trust each other and compensate with lots of strict rules. E.g. American police seem a lot more authoritarian than police in nordic countries.

mercutio2 9y ago
Your sociological explanations may be accurate, but it’s probably worth noting that very low police:population ratios in the US combined with a gargantuan supply of unrestricted handgun possession in the hands of the populous is also a strong contributor to bunker mentality from the police. [Edit: I see that Norway has a similarly low police:population ratio, so that observation isn’t really relevant for comparisons with Norway or the rest of Scandinavia. My error!] Also, Norwegian border patrol agents seemed pretty damned authoritarian in my experience, so my personal contact with law enforcement doesn’t match yours for the respective countries. /end anecdote
- microtherion 9y ago
  Why do you consider the police:population ratio in the US "very low"? It seems it's pretty much middle of the pack, and arguably on the high side for Western Democracies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
  - mercutio2 9y ago
    Those numbers are state level police numbers. Aggregate numbers for actual officers on a beat are quite different for large countries. Most of Western Europe (according to the studies I’ve read) have significantly higher numbers of police in the community. To answer your larger question: Humans don’t respond well to small probability high negative outcomes. One common theory in criminality is that we want to optimize people’s sense that they’ll be caught, and then give smaller, more certain punishments. Basically, ideally we’d have many more police, many fewer prisons.

mercutio2 9y ago

Your sociological explanations may be accurate, but it’s probably worth noting that very low police:population ratios in the US combined with a gargantuan supply of unrestricted handgun possession in the hands of the populous is also a strong contributor to bunker mentality from the police. [Edit: I see that Norway has a similarly low police:population ratio, so that observation isn’t really relevant for comparisons with Norway or the rest of Scandinavia. My error!] Also, Norwegian border patrol agents seemed pretty damned authoritarian in my experience, so my personal contact with law enforcement doesn’t match yours for the respective countries. /end anecdote

microtherion 9y ago
Why do you consider the police:population ratio in the US "very low"? It seems it's pretty much middle of the pack, and arguably on the high side for Western Democracies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
- mercutio2 9y ago
  Those numbers are state level police numbers. Aggregate numbers for actual officers on a beat are quite different for large countries. Most of Western Europe (according to the studies I’ve read) have significantly higher numbers of police in the community. To answer your larger question: Humans don’t respond well to small probability high negative outcomes. One common theory in criminality is that we want to optimize people’s sense that they’ll be caught, and then give smaller, more certain punishments. Basically, ideally we’d have many more police, many fewer prisons.