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This article feels is one of the very few cases where i read something online and totally feels weird to me due to where i am from. In Greece coffee shops are r

This article feels is one of the very few cases where i read something online and totally feels weird to me due to where i am from. In Greece coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out and staying for hours on a single coffee is pretty much normal and expected. There is a huge "coffee culture" here. Me and my friends would go for a coffee at 6pm (or later 7pm, due to jobs) and often leave at 11pm or sometimes 2am (note that many coffee shops, especially at the most popular areas in the bigger cities remain open from morning to very late at night and after some point they also start offering drinks). This was also one bit that i missed when i lived in other countries (i had a sort of culture shock one time when, visiting a mall a bit after work, i saw other people from work leaving from a beer outing at around 9pm or so :-P). Laptop users aren't seen very often in general though (and TBH with how noisy the shops are i doubt they'll ever be), although i live near a university and there is a coffee shop nearby with nice flat tables looking at the street and i often see students with laptops there. Also years ago, at my first gamedev job (although before i joined) on a startup, the team didn't had offices for a few months and the programming team mostly worked from laptops at the roof of a coffee shop :-P (and AFAIK generally all meetings with the entire team and everything were held in various coffee shops around the city). Of course all that means that there are tons of coffee shops everywhere and i remember when i lived abroad, my landlord - who visited Greece - telling me how strange he found that there were so many coffee shops. Personally i considered visiting a nearby coffee shop with my laptop a few times (there are 5 shops just 100m range, two right outside of my place), but i always change my mind because of the noise... and because i don't like working from a laptop :-P.

JorgeGT 9y ago
> coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out Isn't that so in the US? I mean, the guys from Friends practically lived in that Central Perk coffee house.
- jclardy 9y ago
  It is. But the issue is remote workers that go and take up a 4 person table with their laptop and a bunch of papers then sit there all day...meaning a group of 2-4 no longer has a place to hang out. I both work out of and hangout in coffee shops in the US, when working remote I make sure to always use the long community table if there are already a few seats used, or sit at the bar, or a two person table if I must. And if it is super busy and people are looking for seats I’ll go elsewhere.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > But the issue is remote workers that go and take up a 4 person table with their laptop and a bunch of papers then sit there all day...meaning a group of 2-4 no longer has a place to hang out. Nah, the issue is, multiple groups of 2-4 people no longer have a place to hang out, meaning the shop earns less money.
  - jonnycomputer 9y ago
    in some places cafes are practically empty at certain times of the day. probably not in NY though.
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
I'm Greek too and I had the same thoughts. Specifically that it's perfectly possible to have a profitable business while expecting your customers to take over four or five seats for several hours for the price of a single coffee per head- because all the cafés I went to when I was in Greece did exactly that and they stayed in business for ever (most are still open like 12 years after I emigrated). The difference is probably in the fact that Greeks go to the cafés with their friends. You almost never see a single person sitting at a table with a coffee cup for hours on end- except in the traditional cafés (kafeneio, vs cafeteria) that have basically single-person tables. It works for the café because if you have a parea of five that stay around for five hours, that's like having five single customers each hogging a table for an hour- except you can accommodate several groups at once so you sell many more coffees per table than you would if your clientelle were single remote workers and their laptops. Maybe, if it became much more common for remote workers working from cafés in Greece, then the economics would change- and our (café) culture would be in danger :)
- Feniks 9y ago
  Cultures are different. Dutch people don't hang out in cafes during the day. So on weekdays cafés are quiet places. The economy has also shifted. Lots of people are self-employed. And most jobs that people make money with only require a laptop and WiFi.
- arghIdontwantto 9y ago
  I'm portuguese, so don't take this as a jab, but cafes are also notorious for tax evading, specially on the single coffee or 2 beers kind of bills. I have two very good friends that own cafes here (which seem to work similar to what you are describing) and he hates when someone uses a table for hours on end and ends up paying one euro or something, even groups. He always told me that his best customers are the ones that come in, have their coffee, pay the euro, don't care about receipt and leave after 10 minutes. Those are the ones that keep him in business (and yes, tax on a 1 euro coffee isn't much, but multiply by easily 500 a day, and it starts to add up)
keithpeter 9y ago
I'm guessing that rents are low for the coffee shops. I also decry the loss of public spaces such as libraries (in my northern European city the main public library was rebuilt at fabulous cost and has less seating than the old one).
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  >...and has less seating than the old one Is that a problem though? From my experience, at the library I frequent, while being well visited at all times has at most 20% of their seating occupied. Don't live in northern europe though, so YMMV (maybe it's too cold outside to justify going to the library only for a short visit :D) EDIT: The library I'm talking about is also a great social development. It's been built (about 10 years ago now) in the most densely-populated part of town, which was and still is considered by too many people as 'problematic' and it really lifts up the whole area.
- eberkund 9y ago
  I'm from Canada and the local library near me was also recently renovated with less seating than the old one. The actual building is probably twice the size, it used to consist of tightly packed 10ft bookshelves and cubicle desks and little nooks and crannies where people can sit. Now it is a more "open concept" layout with two story ceilings, short bookshelves that you can see over, big lounge chairs. I would glady go to the library when I want to work on my laptop but there is usually nowhere to sit, now I prefer to go to a coffee shop.
  - rocky1138 9y ago
    If you haven't already, be sure to talk to the manager at the library to leave this feedback. They can't improve what they don't know.
icebraining 9y ago
I think that culture is widespread in Southern Europe, at least Spain and Portugal also have plenty of coffeeshops where people get together in groups. I'm never bothered about "hogging a table"; if a certain coffeeshop happens to be full, there are at least three others within 5m of walking distance that will have many free tables.
MikeKusold 9y ago
> In Greece coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out and staying for hours on a single coffee From my experience on Samos, this might be attributed to the current economic situation. At bars it's not uncommon to see a person drink a pint over 1-2 hours. Most of the people that I observed did more smoking then drinking at bars and coffee shops because cigarettes (especially hand rolled ones) are a lot cheaper then drinks.
- Spakman 9y ago
  Coffee Lab, perhaps? I thought it was a really cool coffee shop when I was there last year and, as you say, very much a hang out sort of place.

JorgeGT 9y ago

> coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out Isn't that so in the US? I mean, the guys from Friends practically lived in that Central Perk coffee house.

jclardy 9y ago
It is. But the issue is remote workers that go and take up a 4 person table with their laptop and a bunch of papers then sit there all day...meaning a group of 2-4 no longer has a place to hang out. I both work out of and hangout in coffee shops in the US, when working remote I make sure to always use the long community table if there are already a few seats used, or sit at the bar, or a two person table if I must. And if it is super busy and people are looking for seats I’ll go elsewhere.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > But the issue is remote workers that go and take up a 4 person table with their laptop and a bunch of papers then sit there all day...meaning a group of 2-4 no longer has a place to hang out. Nah, the issue is, multiple groups of 2-4 people no longer have a place to hang out, meaning the shop earns less money.
- jonnycomputer 9y ago
  in some places cafes are practically empty at certain times of the day. probably not in NY though.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

I'm Greek too and I had the same thoughts. Specifically that it's perfectly possible to have a profitable business while expecting your customers to take over four or five seats for several hours for the price of a single coffee per head- because all the cafés I went to when I was in Greece did exactly that and they stayed in business for ever (most are still open like 12 years after I emigrated). The difference is probably in the fact that Greeks go to the cafés with their friends. You almost never see a single person sitting at a table with a coffee cup for hours on end- except in the traditional cafés (kafeneio, vs cafeteria) that have basically single-person tables. It works for the café because if you have a parea of five that stay around for five hours, that's like having five single customers each hogging a table for an hour- except you can accommodate several groups at once so you sell many more coffees per table than you would if your clientelle were single remote workers and their laptops. Maybe, if it became much more common for remote workers working from cafés in Greece, then the economics would change- and our (café) culture would be in danger :)

Feniks 9y ago
Cultures are different. Dutch people don't hang out in cafes during the day. So on weekdays cafés are quiet places. The economy has also shifted. Lots of people are self-employed. And most jobs that people make money with only require a laptop and WiFi.
arghIdontwantto 9y ago
I'm portuguese, so don't take this as a jab, but cafes are also notorious for tax evading, specially on the single coffee or 2 beers kind of bills. I have two very good friends that own cafes here (which seem to work similar to what you are describing) and he hates when someone uses a table for hours on end and ends up paying one euro or something, even groups. He always told me that his best customers are the ones that come in, have their coffee, pay the euro, don't care about receipt and leave after 10 minutes. Those are the ones that keep him in business (and yes, tax on a 1 euro coffee isn't much, but multiply by easily 500 a day, and it starts to add up)

keithpeter 9y ago

I'm guessing that rents are low for the coffee shops. I also decry the loss of public spaces such as libraries (in my northern European city the main public library was rebuilt at fabulous cost and has less seating than the old one).

Joe-Z 9y ago
>...and has less seating than the old one Is that a problem though? From my experience, at the library I frequent, while being well visited at all times has at most 20% of their seating occupied. Don't live in northern europe though, so YMMV (maybe it's too cold outside to justify going to the library only for a short visit :D) EDIT: The library I'm talking about is also a great social development. It's been built (about 10 years ago now) in the most densely-populated part of town, which was and still is considered by too many people as 'problematic' and it really lifts up the whole area.
eberkund 9y ago
I'm from Canada and the local library near me was also recently renovated with less seating than the old one. The actual building is probably twice the size, it used to consist of tightly packed 10ft bookshelves and cubicle desks and little nooks and crannies where people can sit. Now it is a more "open concept" layout with two story ceilings, short bookshelves that you can see over, big lounge chairs. I would glady go to the library when I want to work on my laptop but there is usually nowhere to sit, now I prefer to go to a coffee shop.
- rocky1138 9y ago
  If you haven't already, be sure to talk to the manager at the library to leave this feedback. They can't improve what they don't know.

icebraining 9y ago

I think that culture is widespread in Southern Europe, at least Spain and Portugal also have plenty of coffeeshops where people get together in groups. I'm never bothered about "hogging a table"; if a certain coffeeshop happens to be full, there are at least three others within 5m of walking distance that will have many free tables.

MikeKusold 9y ago

> In Greece coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out and staying for hours on a single coffee From my experience on Samos, this might be attributed to the current economic situation. At bars it's not uncommon to see a person drink a pint over 1-2 hours. Most of the people that I observed did more smoking then drinking at bars and coffee shops because cigarettes (especially hand rolled ones) are a lot cheaper then drinks.

Spakman 9y ago
Coffee Lab, perhaps? I thought it was a really cool coffee shop when I was there last year and, as you say, very much a hang out sort of place.