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I disagree, the major problem with meth is cheapness, availability, and that it is highly addictive. I live in Australia where we've been suffering under a mass

I disagree, the major problem with meth is cheapness, availability, and that it is highly addictive. I live in Australia where we've been suffering under a massive meth epidemic for over a decade. I'm chuckling about the thought of me wandering up to one of the many "walking dead" around town and informing them that they're using meth wrong. Because your definition of "wrong", whilst possibly technically correct, is completely irrelevant on the street. People want to get high, very high, as fast as possible. They're not looking to leverage meth as some sort of productivity life hack, they're using to get as high as they can for as long as possible, That's why injecting occurs, it's apparently the best bang for buck when compared to oral ingestion or smoking.

qwerty456127 9y ago
I get you point, but... IMHO a huge portion of addictivity are the withdrawal symptoms that can be made much much easier (and last just a couple of days instead of weeks) if the measures I've described above were taken in advance (another huge part is about public stigmatization, lack of understanding and support - AFAIK happy people with loving families are by orders of magnitude less prone to become addicts). And turning into the "walking dead" is all about lack of the healthcare measures I've described above (e.g. my skin went bad once I've tried using meth for about a week many ears ago to manage with a project deadline but a strong E+A vitamin supplement has turned it back healthy overnight).
- plugger 9y ago
  From how I understand it meth floods the dopamine receptors in the brain and prolonged use effectively fries them, or at least they become dependent on the artificial dopamine rush that meth provides. And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you advocating using meth to curb the withdrawal symptoms from meth? That seems, well, strange. As for the walking dead, here in Australia we have free socialised healthcare which meth addicts can access whenever they want. And yet they're still undernourished, missing most teeth, and engaging in what could easily be described as risky behaviour. I don't think you worry too much about all of your damaged or missing teeth when your primary concern is finding enough money to buy your next fix.
  - qwerty456127 9y ago
    > And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you advocating using meth to curb the withdrawal symptoms from meth? I am absolutely absolutely not, this is ridiculous. But I believe this is what many people do: they feel bad after the meth wears off so the take more of it. What I am saying is they should take big amounts of vitamins, piracetam and water instead (before, under and after meth) so they won't need more meth to go back to what feels normal. But I think at least 80% of meth users don't know about this (I had to educate some of them personally and this, together with support from people they loved helped them quit) and this is a huge portion of the problem. > From how I understand it meth floods the dopamine receptors in the brain and prolonged use effectively fries them, or at least they become dependent on the artificial dopamine rush that meth provides. This is true but slightly exaggerated. This problem is not really hard to resist and mitigate if you want (sad thing many people don't want as they have no other feel-good things in their lives, there also are some people that are dopamine-addicts by nature genetically - e.g. these are also prone to gambling). > As for the walking dead, here in Australia we have free socialised healthcare which meth addicts can access whenever they want. And yet they're still undernourished, missing most teeth, and engaging in what could easily be described as risky behaviour. I don't think you worry too much about all of your damaged or missing teeth when your primary concern is finding enough money to buy your next fix. Indeed deeply addicted people usually have no will, let alone knowledge to cure. By the way what things do you give away there at the centres? I would say piracetam is the most important thing but this is not confirmed scientifically by any accredited institutions so it would hardly appear in government-sponsored cnentres. It is also important to educate people about all the substances that tey should take together with the meth so it won't feel this bad after it wears off.
    - plugger 9y ago
      > This is true but slightly exaggerated. This problem is not really hard to resist and mitigate if you want (sad thing many people don't want as they have no other feel-good things in their lives. there also are some people that are dopamine-addicts by nature genetically - e.g. these are also prone to gambling). How it was described to me is that the dopamine receptors in the brain become "re-calibrated" for lack of a better term to the high levels of dopamine that are dumped when they reup on their high. And IF they try and quit the dopamine receptors never come back to normal. So for heavy addicts the only way their brain registers a dopamine dump (for lack of a better term) is if it's artificially triggered by meth. > By the way what things do you give away there at the centres? I live in Western Australia and I'm pretty sure we don't operate any meth focused centres or clean needle exchanges. IIRC those services are in Sydney (Kings Cross). All that said I find there are some people who can be "weekend warriors" and smoke meth for pleasure without being swallowed up by it. That said I've also seen good people hollowed out by meth. I suspect it's gene based but that's suspicion alone.

qwerty456127 9y ago

I get you point, but... IMHO a huge portion of addictivity are the withdrawal symptoms that can be made much much easier (and last just a couple of days instead of weeks) if the measures I've described above were taken in advance (another huge part is about public stigmatization, lack of understanding and support - AFAIK happy people with loving families are by orders of magnitude less prone to become addicts). And turning into the "walking dead" is all about lack of the healthcare measures I've described above (e.g. my skin went bad once I've tried using meth for about a week many ears ago to manage with a project deadline but a strong E+A vitamin supplement has turned it back healthy overnight).

plugger 9y ago
From how I understand it meth floods the dopamine receptors in the brain and prolonged use effectively fries them, or at least they become dependent on the artificial dopamine rush that meth provides. And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you advocating using meth to curb the withdrawal symptoms from meth? That seems, well, strange. As for the walking dead, here in Australia we have free socialised healthcare which meth addicts can access whenever they want. And yet they're still undernourished, missing most teeth, and engaging in what could easily be described as risky behaviour. I don't think you worry too much about all of your damaged or missing teeth when your primary concern is finding enough money to buy your next fix.
- qwerty456127 9y ago
  > And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you advocating using meth to curb the withdrawal symptoms from meth? I am absolutely absolutely not, this is ridiculous. But I believe this is what many people do: they feel bad after the meth wears off so the take more of it. What I am saying is they should take big amounts of vitamins, piracetam and water instead (before, under and after meth) so they won't need more meth to go back to what feels normal. But I think at least 80% of meth users don't know about this (I had to educate some of them personally and this, together with support from people they loved helped them quit) and this is a huge portion of the problem. > From how I understand it meth floods the dopamine receptors in the brain and prolonged use effectively fries them, or at least they become dependent on the artificial dopamine rush that meth provides. This is true but slightly exaggerated. This problem is not really hard to resist and mitigate if you want (sad thing many people don't want as they have no other feel-good things in their lives, there also are some people that are dopamine-addicts by nature genetically - e.g. these are also prone to gambling). > As for the walking dead, here in Australia we have free socialised healthcare which meth addicts can access whenever they want. And yet they're still undernourished, missing most teeth, and engaging in what could easily be described as risky behaviour. I don't think you worry too much about all of your damaged or missing teeth when your primary concern is finding enough money to buy your next fix. Indeed deeply addicted people usually have no will, let alone knowledge to cure. By the way what things do you give away there at the centres? I would say piracetam is the most important thing but this is not confirmed scientifically by any accredited institutions so it would hardly appear in government-sponsored cnentres. It is also important to educate people about all the substances that tey should take together with the meth so it won't feel this bad after it wears off.
  - plugger 9y ago
    > This is true but slightly exaggerated. This problem is not really hard to resist and mitigate if you want (sad thing many people don't want as they have no other feel-good things in their lives. there also are some people that are dopamine-addicts by nature genetically - e.g. these are also prone to gambling). How it was described to me is that the dopamine receptors in the brain become "re-calibrated" for lack of a better term to the high levels of dopamine that are dumped when they reup on their high. And IF they try and quit the dopamine receptors never come back to normal. So for heavy addicts the only way their brain registers a dopamine dump (for lack of a better term) is if it's artificially triggered by meth. > By the way what things do you give away there at the centres? I live in Western Australia and I'm pretty sure we don't operate any meth focused centres or clean needle exchanges. IIRC those services are in Sydney (Kings Cross). All that said I find there are some people who can be "weekend warriors" and smoke meth for pleasure without being swallowed up by it. That said I've also seen good people hollowed out by meth. I suspect it's gene based but that's suspicion alone.