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> if you'd like to engage with the specifics of the story .. The main stream media arrogantly assumed The Presidency would be a shoe-in for Clinton. Trump was

> if you'd like to engage with the specifics of the story .. The main stream media arrogantly assumed The Presidency would be a shoe-in for Clinton. Trump was good-for-ratings but no-one seriously expected him to actually win. This Russians-influenced-the-election narrative is a ruse thought up by the media to excuse their failure to present the correct candidate to the American electorate. What would be interesting to know is just who is leaking against both 'Hillary' and Trump and what their motives are. I suspect the leaks are coming from factions in the Washington establishment and elements of the state security apparatus. The Golden Shower dossier being a prime example, also provided by a foreign intelligence organization. Incidentally, the same people who provided evidence of Saddam Hussein's non-existent weapons of mass destruction. This Russian hackers story and similar, part of a conspiracy to get Trump deposed, nothing short of a palace coup prosecuted against an elected President.

perl4ever 9y ago
Whichever side you are on, if everyone believes in one vast and unlikely conspiracy or the other, it no longer means much to accuse your opponents of being crazy conspiracy theorists, it seems to me. I can't see how a priori Russia conspiracy theories are more implausible than the FBI, CIA, DOJ, State Department, OPM, and all the Republicans and Democrats investigating the administration being part of the "palace coup" attempt. Ex-administration people are now saying that the security clearance process is run by people trying to subvert the President and his administration. At some point, doesn't Occam's razor suggest that the administration really is trying to destroy the government for whatever reasons, and the "Deep State" is simply composed of everyone trying to keep it functional? I don't have any bumper stickers on my car, but I was thinking of looking for one that says "I support the Deep State".
golergka 9y ago
> The Golden Shower dossier Wasn't it originally a 4chan invention?
- perl4ever 9y ago
  The so called "dossier" was a series of memos produced for a company called Fusion GPS that does things like opposition research, for both parties, using ex-journalists and intelligence agents. If you are so far out of the loop as to think it originated with 4chan, I'm not sure where to start, but perhaps it might be edifying to read Glenn Simpson's testimony to the Senate. One place it's available is https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/read-the-full-transcript-of-glenn-simpsons-senate-testimony/2700/ https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/read-th...
cafard 9y ago
Who is going to "depose" Trump? That would require impeachment by the House of Representatives and conviction by 2/3 of the Senate. Both now have Republican majorities. Considering the way Trump went through J. Bush, Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, etc. in the Republican nomination process of 2016, the Republican legislator who votes to impeach or convict would have reason to believe sawing off the limb he sits on. As for the Democrats, what would they get if Trump disappeared from Washington tomorrow--resigned to play more golf, say? President Pence, much more experienced in the mechanics of government, better able to organize and lead an agenda, eligible to run not only in 2020 but 2024. Given the absence of an obvious beneficiary here, I don't see a palace coup in the making. I don't work in the media, mainstream or otherwise. Until Trump was nominated, I thought very poorly of Clinton's chances.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> This Russian hackers story and similar, part of a conspiracy to get Trump deposed, nothing short of a palace coup prosecuted against an elected President The Russian hacking story broke well before Trump was elected. Your elaborate fantasy requires retrocausality.

perl4ever 9y ago

Whichever side you are on, if everyone believes in one vast and unlikely conspiracy or the other, it no longer means much to accuse your opponents of being crazy conspiracy theorists, it seems to me. I can't see how a priori Russia conspiracy theories are more implausible than the FBI, CIA, DOJ, State Department, OPM, and all the Republicans and Democrats investigating the administration being part of the "palace coup" attempt. Ex-administration people are now saying that the security clearance process is run by people trying to subvert the President and his administration. At some point, doesn't Occam's razor suggest that the administration really is trying to destroy the government for whatever reasons, and the "Deep State" is simply composed of everyone trying to keep it functional? I don't have any bumper stickers on my car, but I was thinking of looking for one that says "I support the Deep State".

golergka 9y ago

> The Golden Shower dossier Wasn't it originally a 4chan invention?

perl4ever 9y ago
The so called "dossier" was a series of memos produced for a company called Fusion GPS that does things like opposition research, for both parties, using ex-journalists and intelligence agents. If you are so far out of the loop as to think it originated with 4chan, I'm not sure where to start, but perhaps it might be edifying to read Glenn Simpson's testimony to the Senate. One place it's available is https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/read-the-full-transcript-of-glenn-simpsons-senate-testimony/2700/ https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/politics/read-th...

cafard 9y ago

Who is going to "depose" Trump? That would require impeachment by the House of Representatives and conviction by 2/3 of the Senate. Both now have Republican majorities. Considering the way Trump went through J. Bush, Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, etc. in the Republican nomination process of 2016, the Republican legislator who votes to impeach or convict would have reason to believe sawing off the limb he sits on. As for the Democrats, what would they get if Trump disappeared from Washington tomorrow--resigned to play more golf, say? President Pence, much more experienced in the mechanics of government, better able to organize and lead an agenda, eligible to run not only in 2020 but 2024. Given the absence of an obvious beneficiary here, I don't see a palace coup in the making. I don't work in the media, mainstream or otherwise. Until Trump was nominated, I thought very poorly of Clinton's chances.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> This Russian hackers story and similar, part of a conspiracy to get Trump deposed, nothing short of a palace coup prosecuted against an elected President The Russian hacking story broke well before Trump was elected. Your elaborate fantasy requires retrocausality.