5 ms·

Isn't the problem the high turnover rate in the industry? Why invest in educating someone if they are going to quit in one year or so?

emodendroket 9y ago
What I've seen (and frankly even what I experienced in my own career) is that really junior people are grateful to the company that gave them their first opportunity and also (to a degree that might even be called naive) invested in what their companies do, and for that reason tend to stay at companies a long time compared to more senior people.
- autotune 9y ago
  More ops than dev, though still have to do both, but this has been the case with me as well. I have been open to staying at a company longer given they are willing to pay a reasonable salary and have the right type and amount of work. No point in switching every year if you're somewhere decent.
lovich 9y ago
It's a bit of a chicken or the egg problem. Why stay at a company that doesn't invest in you?
- tensor 9y ago
  Most developers doing the one year stint thing don't care about anything other than salary. No matter what you do for them they will jump after a year. Seeing that pattern on a resume a big warning sign. These people are simply mercenary and deserve to be treated as such.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Maybe, but how many times do people sign on at positions that either weren't at all what was pitched or else have changed so much as to be completely unrecognizable in a few years after the company changes hands and turns everyone over a few times?
  - lovich 9y ago
    Most companies seem to think that a good years raise is just a cost of living increase. If one side acted better I could see getting all high and mighty about it, but that's not the case. When companies decided to cut all loyalty to employees they shouldn't be surprised when the feeling is reciprocated
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      This. Loyalty is a two-way street. Seeing a series of one-year terms on a resume means that the candidate is probably mercenary now, but it also means that none of those previous companies invested anything into retention or morale. They could probably be converted back to a company stalwart if only someone would treat them right. On my resume, the "at-will" terminations outnumber the number of times I jumped ship for a better situation, 5 to 1. This last year's raise was just a cost of living increase, and they crappified the health benefits, so I may have to even those numbers up a bit soon. The only thing stopping me is the horrid, nauseating, bile-raising gauntlet of developer interviews.
  - ataturk 9y ago
    Given everything that has been discussed on this very page, what's wrong with mercenary tactics? WTF? Companies hold no loyalty to anyone except maybe their inner circle, MBA types are the most mercenary pigs around, and yet you expect a developer with actual skills and something to offer to act differently? How about no? You get maybe 25 years to make all the money you're ever really going to make as a developer. That's it! So you better fucking be a mercenary. What you're really saying when you see that on a resume is: "Here's someone I can't exploit, mistreat, or fuck over" and that terrifies you. I'll change jobs whenever and however it suits me. Hell, I once quit a gig because the bathrooms stank too much!
klobo 9y ago
'Why invest in educating someone if they are going to quit in one year or so?' 'What happens if you don't invest in them, and they decide to stay?' - Quote from a management guru, can't remember his/her name
- throwaway9116 9y ago
  But what if the company's plan is to exit or bust in a few years? There's not much of a future for them either way..
  - crpatino 9y ago
    You know you are living interesting times when companies bust on purpose !!!
rosege 9y ago
It should just be budgeted in as part of their total cost
ashelmire 9y ago
The problem is that devs can get much larger salary increases by jumping to a new company rather than staying put. The solution to this problem is to reward them for their performance and increased usefulness, especially in their first few years.

emodendroket 9y ago

What I've seen (and frankly even what I experienced in my own career) is that really junior people are grateful to the company that gave them their first opportunity and also (to a degree that might even be called naive) invested in what their companies do, and for that reason tend to stay at companies a long time compared to more senior people.

autotune 9y ago
More ops than dev, though still have to do both, but this has been the case with me as well. I have been open to staying at a company longer given they are willing to pay a reasonable salary and have the right type and amount of work. No point in switching every year if you're somewhere decent.

lovich 9y ago

It's a bit of a chicken or the egg problem. Why stay at a company that doesn't invest in you?

tensor 9y ago
Most developers doing the one year stint thing don't care about anything other than salary. No matter what you do for them they will jump after a year. Seeing that pattern on a resume a big warning sign. These people are simply mercenary and deserve to be treated as such.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Maybe, but how many times do people sign on at positions that either weren't at all what was pitched or else have changed so much as to be completely unrecognizable in a few years after the company changes hands and turns everyone over a few times?
- lovich 9y ago
  Most companies seem to think that a good years raise is just a cost of living increase. If one side acted better I could see getting all high and mighty about it, but that's not the case. When companies decided to cut all loyalty to employees they shouldn't be surprised when the feeling is reciprocated
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    This. Loyalty is a two-way street. Seeing a series of one-year terms on a resume means that the candidate is probably mercenary now, but it also means that none of those previous companies invested anything into retention or morale. They could probably be converted back to a company stalwart if only someone would treat them right. On my resume, the "at-will" terminations outnumber the number of times I jumped ship for a better situation, 5 to 1. This last year's raise was just a cost of living increase, and they crappified the health benefits, so I may have to even those numbers up a bit soon. The only thing stopping me is the horrid, nauseating, bile-raising gauntlet of developer interviews.
- ataturk 9y ago
  Given everything that has been discussed on this very page, what's wrong with mercenary tactics? WTF? Companies hold no loyalty to anyone except maybe their inner circle, MBA types are the most mercenary pigs around, and yet you expect a developer with actual skills and something to offer to act differently? How about no? You get maybe 25 years to make all the money you're ever really going to make as a developer. That's it! So you better fucking be a mercenary. What you're really saying when you see that on a resume is: "Here's someone I can't exploit, mistreat, or fuck over" and that terrifies you. I'll change jobs whenever and however it suits me. Hell, I once quit a gig because the bathrooms stank too much!

klobo 9y ago

'Why invest in educating someone if they are going to quit in one year or so?' 'What happens if you don't invest in them, and they decide to stay?' - Quote from a management guru, can't remember his/her name

throwaway9116 9y ago
But what if the company's plan is to exit or bust in a few years? There's not much of a future for them either way..
- crpatino 9y ago
  You know you are living interesting times when companies bust on purpose !!!

rosege 9y ago

It should just be budgeted in as part of their total cost

ashelmire 9y ago

The problem is that devs can get much larger salary increases by jumping to a new company rather than staying put. The solution to this problem is to reward them for their performance and increased usefulness, especially in their first few years.