5 ms·

NVIDIA may be publicly saying that, but I am sure they are absolutely thrilled with the way sales (and margins) have been growing. And it wasn't gaming, AI, or

by mv4 9y ago

NVIDIA may be publicly saying that, but I am sure they are absolutely thrilled with the way sales (and margins) have been growing. And it wasn't gaming, AI, or autonomous cars - it's mining. The gamer problem is exaggerated. While GPUs are definitely hard to buy in quantities > 1, and the prices are definitely much higher than 6 months ago - pre-built gaming machines (Alienware, Lenovo Cube, iBuyPower, etc) are still affordable. It's almost absurd seeing how these computers are now sold for less than the sum of the parts (especially the RAM and the GPU). So, one thing has definitely changed for gamers - it's actually much cheaper now to buy a whole gaming PC than to build one. So much so that "crypto enthusiasts" now buy these machines, swap out the GPUs for low-end versions, then put them on eBay.

tormeh 9y ago
That's because system vendors have fixed-price contracts. Their prices just have time lag.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Fr0styMatt88 9y ago
Mining isn't the only issue although it's the one that gets all the attention it seems. From what I've heard RAM prices are high and this is a large contributing factor to the price rises - Gamers Nexus[1] on YouTube mentioned that the _bill of materials cost_ for building a graphics card had gone up by something like $20-$30 because of RAM and board partners are actually having to raise their official MSRP. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNHVosINro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNHVosINro
Armisael16 9y ago
NVidia's sales and margins haven't really been growing. They buy fab time way in advance and sell to third-party vendors at a fixed price. They aren't selling more units, and the third-party vendors are netting all the profits. Worse yet, if nv does invest in more card production they run the risk of bringing that online just at the crypto market crashes, when there will be much less demand for cards and a flood of old mining cards on the used market. Worse yet, if gamers can't buy your cards you lose loyalty (can't build it with newbies and old hands slowly forget). If you don't believe that gamers are unhappy then you simply haven't been paying attention. This is an appalling situation for Nvidia (and AMD - all the same reasons apply to them too).
- Const-me 9y ago
  > if nv does invest in more card production they run the risk of bringing that online just at the crypto market crashes, when there will be much less demand for cards and a flood of old mining cards on the used market Are you saying they shouldn’t manufacture & sell more card now because that this will cost them future sales? Can’t they just put that extra income in a bank and earn nice interests on the profits that are shifted from future to present due to that crypto craziness?
  - thirtyseven 9y ago
    Chip fab has high fixed costs that take time to recoup. If they build more capacity now for demand that evaporates by the time it comes online, they are out a huge amount of $$.
    - Const-me 9y ago
      > Chip fab has high fixed costs How’s that relevant? nVidia has no chip fabs. They use third party services. Currently TSMC but if TSMC is overbooked there’re others, e.g. for the current-gen GPUs nVidia also considered Samsung but apparently got better deal from TSMC.
criley2 9y ago
The gamer problem is not being exaggerated. Price per $ has literally decreased over the last 3 years. I'm not being hyperbolic, $300 in 2015 buys you a better graphics card than $300 in 2018. In normal times, a $300 card in 2015 costs $150-180 in 2018. It's easy to then see that the 2018 $300 card much be generations further. However, today, a nVidia GTX 1060 will run you around $350 if you can find one in stock, and its performance per dollar is literally inferior to say an AMD R9 390 from 2015, which could be found under $300. Very rarely in tech do we exist in a market where 3 years ago performance costs more today than it did then. Would you be okay paying $600 or $700 for an iPhone6 or LG G3? It's shocking to us when years and years go by and your dollar doesn't change what you get.
- blattimwind 9y ago
  I've been looking to upgrade my six-year old graphics card for almost two years now, but the pricing has been consistently bad and even worsened over that time span —— I simply can't justify buying new card: - If I spend the same amount of money I have roughly spend before for my graphics cards (~200 €), I can't, because that price point does not exist. I could drop 100-150 € on something that's pretty much the same (+-10 %) as my current card, though. - If I want a significant upgrade, I'd have to at least spend twice as much as I want to, likely more (400-500 € range). The price range that most gamers (at least those I know) buy their cards at simply does not exist for the time being. That's true regardless of vendor. Even if I wanted to buy nVidia, the exact same thing applies to their lineup. There are cards <150 €, and then there are cards >>300 €. I used to joke a few years back why there were so many models of everything; why would they need a dozen or more models to cover the price range from 50-xxxx € in 30 € steps? That "complaint" seems ironic in retrospect...
- tormeh 9y ago
  You might want to proofread your writing a bit.
  - criley2 9y ago
    I read it over once before I submitted. I re-read it and give myself an A. Are we pedantically arguing over a comma splice here, or do you have constructive criticism for my writing?
andrei_says_ 9y ago
Many gamers are also PC enthusiasts and buying prebuilt (and less upgrade-able) is not an attractive option. As someone who’s trying to upgrade my gpu in the context of video editing, this situation sucks.
katastic 9y ago
>NVIDIA may be publicly saying that, but I am sure they are absolutely thrilled with the way sales (and margins) have been growing. And it wasn't gaming, AI, or autonomous cars - it's mining. Uhh... mining is a fad. Gamers actually have brand loyalty. Once mining goes away or slows, what happens if the gamers have already left after being alienated?
spartanatreyu 9y ago
Yeah... gamers as a rule don't want pre-built machines because the builds usually skimp out on cheap/poor quality parts
Spooky23 9y ago
That’s just because of pricing contracts. The OEM is taking a bath. My SSD and memory intensive workload infrastructure increased 60% in cost after our deal dissolved.

by mv4 9y ago

tormeh 9y ago

That's because system vendors have fixed-price contracts. Their prices just have time lag.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Fr0styMatt88 9y ago

Mining isn't the only issue although it's the one that gets all the attention it seems. From what I've heard RAM prices are high and this is a large contributing factor to the price rises - Gamers Nexus[1] on YouTube mentioned that the _bill of materials cost_ for building a graphics card had gone up by something like $20-$30 because of RAM and board partners are actually having to raise their official MSRP. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNHVosINro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNHVosINro

Armisael16 9y ago

NVidia's sales and margins haven't really been growing. They buy fab time way in advance and sell to third-party vendors at a fixed price. They aren't selling more units, and the third-party vendors are netting all the profits. Worse yet, if nv does invest in more card production they run the risk of bringing that online just at the crypto market crashes, when there will be much less demand for cards and a flood of old mining cards on the used market. Worse yet, if gamers can't buy your cards you lose loyalty (can't build it with newbies and old hands slowly forget). If you don't believe that gamers are unhappy then you simply haven't been paying attention. This is an appalling situation for Nvidia (and AMD - all the same reasons apply to them too).

Const-me 9y ago
> if nv does invest in more card production they run the risk of bringing that online just at the crypto market crashes, when there will be much less demand for cards and a flood of old mining cards on the used market Are you saying they shouldn’t manufacture & sell more card now because that this will cost them future sales? Can’t they just put that extra income in a bank and earn nice interests on the profits that are shifted from future to present due to that crypto craziness?
- thirtyseven 9y ago
  Chip fab has high fixed costs that take time to recoup. If they build more capacity now for demand that evaporates by the time it comes online, they are out a huge amount of $$.
  - Const-me 9y ago
    > Chip fab has high fixed costs How’s that relevant? nVidia has no chip fabs. They use third party services. Currently TSMC but if TSMC is overbooked there’re others, e.g. for the current-gen GPUs nVidia also considered Samsung but apparently got better deal from TSMC.

criley2 9y ago

The gamer problem is not being exaggerated. Price per $ has literally decreased over the last 3 years. I'm not being hyperbolic, $300 in 2015 buys you a better graphics card than $300 in 2018. In normal times, a $300 card in 2015 costs $150-180 in 2018. It's easy to then see that the 2018 $300 card much be generations further. However, today, a nVidia GTX 1060 will run you around $350 if you can find one in stock, and its performance per dollar is literally inferior to say an AMD R9 390 from 2015, which could be found under $300. Very rarely in tech do we exist in a market where 3 years ago performance costs more today than it did then. Would you be okay paying $600 or $700 for an iPhone6 or LG G3? It's shocking to us when years and years go by and your dollar doesn't change what you get.

blattimwind 9y ago
I've been looking to upgrade my six-year old graphics card for almost two years now, but the pricing has been consistently bad and even worsened over that time span —— I simply can't justify buying new card: - If I spend the same amount of money I have roughly spend before for my graphics cards (~200 €), I can't, because that price point does not exist. I could drop 100-150 € on something that's pretty much the same (+-10 %) as my current card, though. - If I want a significant upgrade, I'd have to at least spend twice as much as I want to, likely more (400-500 € range). The price range that most gamers (at least those I know) buy their cards at simply does not exist for the time being. That's true regardless of vendor. Even if I wanted to buy nVidia, the exact same thing applies to their lineup. There are cards <150 €, and then there are cards >>300 €. I used to joke a few years back why there were so many models of everything; why would they need a dozen or more models to cover the price range from 50-xxxx € in 30 € steps? That "complaint" seems ironic in retrospect...
tormeh 9y ago
You might want to proofread your writing a bit.
- criley2 9y ago
  I read it over once before I submitted. I re-read it and give myself an A. Are we pedantically arguing over a comma splice here, or do you have constructive criticism for my writing?

andrei_says_ 9y ago

Many gamers are also PC enthusiasts and buying prebuilt (and less upgrade-able) is not an attractive option. As someone who’s trying to upgrade my gpu in the context of video editing, this situation sucks.

katastic 9y ago

>NVIDIA may be publicly saying that, but I am sure they are absolutely thrilled with the way sales (and margins) have been growing. And it wasn't gaming, AI, or autonomous cars - it's mining. Uhh... mining is a fad. Gamers actually have brand loyalty. Once mining goes away or slows, what happens if the gamers have already left after being alienated?

spartanatreyu 9y ago

Yeah... gamers as a rule don't want pre-built machines because the builds usually skimp out on cheap/poor quality parts

Spooky23 9y ago

That’s just because of pricing contracts. The OEM is taking a bath. My SSD and memory intensive workload infrastructure increased 60% in cost after our deal dissolved.