4 ms·

> if the goal is to "think like a computer" If the only goal. The OP listed four.

gerred 9y ago
He stopped reading after one for the sake of sweet karma.
Avshalom 9y ago
I'll give shit about #1 when someone invents a time machine and prevents Java from existing. #2 is a great reason to learn Latin but the "influence of C" is identical to the influence of Fortran or Pascal or Algol and of equivalent magnitude to (what evolved into) Common Lisp or Scheme. And #4 is true eventually but it only matters when the software is broken.
- notacoward 9y ago
  Well, that's a better answer than I was responding to. I think I disagree a bit on your response to #2, though. Sure, other languages have also contributed mightily to the design of later languages. Some of them might have contributed more than C. OTOH, they haven't contributed nearly as much to the design of libraries and runtimes that are also important for a working engineer to understand. Programs written in any language are loaded into memory in a manner designed to accommodate C. The primary interface between userspace code written in any language and the kernel is via direct syscalls or libc, which were likewise designed with C's needs in mind. When those APIs do change, it's the C definitions that change and other languages are left on their own to parse the new definitions. So it's true that other languages have been just as influential from a computer scientist's perspective, but from a working engineer's perspective no other language comes close.
- marssaxman 9y ago
  When is the software not broken? The software is always broken while we're working on it, or we'd have shipped it already, and moved on to the next thing we need to break so we can improve on it - that's the nature of the job.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    On one hand yes on the other hand in interest of being pithy I did not say: even when software written in C is broken you're going to need more than a couple semesters of class or a couple months of use to actually fix the C underpinnings of pygtk.
- banku_brougham 9y ago
  Hey! FORTRAN isnt bad at all so...
- jftuga 9y ago
  Yes, because that's what I am going to do when/if I build a time machine.
ChrisSD 9y ago
To be honest of the four listed reasons I only found the last to be compelling. I did however think the third point was worth commenting on as I don't think C is a good way to achieve that goal.

He stopped reading after one for the sake of sweet karma.

I'll give shit about #1 when someone invents a time machine and prevents Java from existing. #2 is a great reason to learn Latin but the "influence of C" is identical to the influence of Fortran or Pascal or Algol and of equivalent magnitude to (what evolved into) Common Lisp or Scheme. And #4 is true eventually but it only matters when the software is broken.

notacoward 9y ago
Well, that's a better answer than I was responding to. I think I disagree a bit on your response to #2, though. Sure, other languages have also contributed mightily to the design of later languages. Some of them might have contributed more than C. OTOH, they haven't contributed nearly as much to the design of libraries and runtimes that are also important for a working engineer to understand. Programs written in any language are loaded into memory in a manner designed to accommodate C. The primary interface between userspace code written in any language and the kernel is via direct syscalls or libc, which were likewise designed with C's needs in mind. When those APIs do change, it's the C definitions that change and other languages are left on their own to parse the new definitions. So it's true that other languages have been just as influential from a computer scientist's perspective, but from a working engineer's perspective no other language comes close.
marssaxman 9y ago
When is the software not broken? The software is always broken while we're working on it, or we'd have shipped it already, and moved on to the next thing we need to break so we can improve on it - that's the nature of the job.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  On one hand yes on the other hand in interest of being pithy I did not say: even when software written in C is broken you're going to need more than a couple semesters of class or a couple months of use to actually fix the C underpinnings of pygtk.
banku_brougham 9y ago
Hey! FORTRAN isnt bad at all so...
jftuga 9y ago
Yes, because that's what I am going to do when/if I build a time machine.

ChrisSD 9y ago

To be honest of the four listed reasons I only found the last to be compelling. I did however think the third point was worth commenting on as I don't think C is a good way to achieve that goal.