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Nokia sold 4.4M smartphones in Q4 2017

141 points by Nokinside 9y ago

abimaelmartell 9y ago
Didn't knew that Nokia still sells smartphones :O EDIT: added the still
- icebraining 9y ago
  Nokia has been selling smartphones since before the iPhone.
  - robin_reala 9y ago
    Way before; the first S60 phone came out in 2002[1] and the original Communicator was from back in 96.[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7650 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7650 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator
- zokier 9y ago
  Strictly speaking Nokia isn't selling smartphones, HMD is. Nokia itself it primarily an IP company, the Nokia brand being part of that IP. Nokias business-model is about licensing their precious IP to other companies, in this case to HMD.
  - ironjunkie 9y ago
    Not at all. There are more than 100k employees in Nokia as of today. Nokia is a B2B company that sells most of the backbone equipment for telecom (Those 4/5G stations, every other Service Routers or core routers out there, etc etc ). The acquisition of Alcatel-Lucent in 2016 helped a lot here.
    - zokier 9y ago
      Oh, right. To my defense, I feel like NSN always has been bit distanced from Nokia proper
    - kingosticks 9y ago
      To be fair, there is Nokia Networks and Nokia Technologies. IP licensing is a very big part of Nokia Technologies.
noureen 9y ago
They took "Never quit trying" to heart
- romwell 9y ago
  Must be that Finnish Sisu[1] at work. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
  - rdtsc 9y ago
    First time I heard about. I like that they have a word for it and its fairly short, I might just start using it myself. I speak almost 4 languages and always fascinated by concepts that can't be directly translated. Also like that there is a scale applied to it and it can be a negative thing: --- [...] there can be too much sisu, and according to the survey answers this leads to bull-headedness, foolhardiness, self-centeredness and inflexible thinking. ---
digi_owl 9y ago
Wonder how much is brand recognition, and how much is the promise of firmware updates...
- izacus 9y ago
  Its say it's mostly really good pricing.
mtgx 9y ago
Where are all the Microsoft (and Symbian) fans saying how if Nokia adopts Android instead of Windows Phones it will fail badly...? (oh, the irony) It's still very early days for Nokia's rebirth, but just imagine if they had only switched to Android back in 2009/2010 when Nokia still had double Samsung's market share in all phones, and its brand meant a lot more than it does today, even if it's still quite not forgotten.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Mostly it was the execs that didn't want to go with Android, because they feared they would end up just another me-to brand fighting over scraps. That said, it seems that much of what sunk Nokia back then was American pension funds pushing to turn a Finnish company American. In a way it was similar to when Stringer was put in charge of Sony, a culture clash of epic proportions...
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    Thing is, so long as Nokia can be the best "me too" brand with immediate Android updates and long support lifespans, coupled with decent hardware design, they'll beat out nearly all their competitors. Do you really want to buy that HTC phone or midrange Samsung that will never see an update to Android 8? Generally not!
  - addicted 9y ago
    "Mostly it was the execs that didn't want to go with Android, because they feared they would end up just another me-to brand fighting over scraps." I know this is what they claimed, but this made absolutely no sense. Windows Phone wasn't a closed OS available only to Nokia. Windows Phone would only make them another me-too brand fighting over even fewer scraps, but with an OS that was far more immature, had little to no user base, had little to no 3rd party support, and had a UI they could personalize even less than Android. With Android at the very least they could have had some differentiation by creating their own skins and launchers, etc. but Windows Phone did not allow them to do even that. And if they did not want to differentiate on OS, then why not go with the OS that had far more 3rd party support than the one that had virtually none?
petepete 9y ago
My next phone will be a Nokia, having exclusively bought Nexus devices since the Galaxy Nexus. Google's last few phones have been plagued with problems, and them withholding software from their niche hardcore fans was the last straw. If only Nokia had got in on the Android action earlier and realised that Symbian/Ovi wasn't up to it.
- Nokinside 9y ago
  I bought Nokia 3 when it came out because I needed a new phone and I just need a basic phone. I didn't do any deep feature comparison but I like it. 1. It's solid Android phone. 2. It's vanilla Android with frequent updates. No crapware and up to date.
  - thinkloop 9y ago
    #2 is 90% of my requirements
    - gautamnarula 9y ago
      Vanilla Android with a decent camera. It is far too difficult to find a phone that meets those criteria.
      - StudentStuff 9y ago
        Have you tried the Google Camera mod? It brings those sweet lens blur shots to other android devices, I have to say it works well on the Nokia 6.
  - dingaling 9y ago
    3. Reasonably easy to root, with a delockable bootloader and quick-to-flash TWRP and SuperSU
- foepys 9y ago
  Same here, even though they are a bit more expensive than the Google branded phones from two years ago and earlier. Nokia also sounded quite sad about not being able to put project Treble on the Nokia 8. Maybe because they now have to put in more effort into putting out Android updates but I welcome their strategy of bringing those updates to the consumer very fast. Sometimes even faster than Google.
agumonkey 9y ago
Not bad for a dead company. Uplifting :)
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Well this "nokia" is actually a different company wearing a mask. The part of Nokia that was making Symbian phones was sold of to Microsoft and is now long dead. The Nokia that remains is focused on mobile and wireless infrastructure. The company now making Nokia branded Android phones is actually HMD Global. That said, HMD is based basically across the road from Nokia and staffed with many former Nokia people.
  - islanderfun 9y ago
    This is so confusing. I have to put some research into but I'm afraid of buying into a dying brand (thus no updates).
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    Yes it's not totally the Nokia that Microsoft bought but it's still infused with legacy Nokia's blood. And also recapturing market share after such an accident is quite a surprise.
Theodores 9y ago
The 'Nokia' in this article is a brand, licensed and stuck on some phones made by some other people. So this is not 'real Nokia' in my opinion. However, an Apple product or a Google product that is actually made by an OEM (Foxconn/HTC/LG etc.) is 'real Apple' or 'real Google'. The problem with badge engineering is the badge.
- rando444 9y ago
  Is there any evidence these are low quality though? I bought a Lumia 720 which I used for 3 years and still works perfectly another 3 or 4 years later, although the Windows OS was lacking in many ways, the phone itself is engineered extremely well, drop resistant, and doesn't even require a case. I've broken more Samsungs than I can count in extremely short periods of time. If the Nokia quality is still there I would love to go back to Nokia.
  - thereau 9y ago
    The Lumia phones were build by Nokia. The Android ones are build by HMD global
    - StudentStuff 9y ago
      The quality is still there though, its definitely a phone you can rock with a minimal case, and if you don't mind it getting a little dinged up, no case is also fine.
  - Zekio 9y ago
    The Nokia quality is very much still there, jerryrigeverything recommends the Nokia phones, since they are built like a tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aXkW0EFRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aXkW0EFRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvh3v1BkJ-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvh3v1BkJ-A
  - FridgeSeal 9y ago
    Teardowns seem to indicate the build quality is definitely still there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M3Budnl3aI&feature=youtu.be&t=186 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M3Budnl3aI&feature=youtu.be...
romwell 9y ago
For what it's worth, my phone now is a Nokia 6. I was choosing between that and a Moto G5 Plus in the price bracket. Perhaps the Moto has better features, but the Nokia has a solid steel plate running through its entire body[1]. So, I could have had a better camera and battery on a Moto, or I could get the assurance that if I end up in a Star Wars garbage compactor scenario, I'd have something I could wedge into the damn doors to avoid being crushed completely flat. I went with the Nokia. [1] https://youtu.be/0M3Budnl3aI?t=186 https://youtu.be/0M3Budnl3aI?t=186
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Nokia has been the timeliest about pushing out updates too, beating Google to the punch by a few weeks for the December Android security patches recently. Realistically, the Nokia 6 will probably have modern Android updates longer than any of the Nexus or Pixel line.
  - Spare_account 9y ago
    Is this reliable? My choice of next phone wad going to be Pixel due to the importance I place on timely updates. Has Nokia committed to beating Google on terms of handset support lifetime?
    - Nokinside 9y ago
      Nokia phones have two years of Android updates guaranteed.
      - Grazester 9y ago
        Google is two prior to the Pixel 2. With the Pixel 2 they committed to three. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16403922/google-pixel-2-phone-android-update-schedule https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16403922/g...
      - nikanj 9y ago
        And how do you enforce that guarantee? I remember when they guaranteed years of updates for the Lumia 800, and then the Lumia 1020. If they stop the updates, you can participate in a class-action lawsuit, and get a Nokia ballpoint pen (ink not included) after eleven years.
Geee 9y ago
That's quite a surprise giving that Nokia 8 was quite disappointing in my opinion. I think they would've sold more without the 'bothie' gimmick, and just marketed their quality and security.
smnrchrds 9y ago
Is there a good brand of non-smart phones available in North America? Nokia had some models, but only in India and select other countries.
dejv 9y ago
Any thoughts on Nokia stock? I do own it as a small part of my portfolio and thinking about expanding my position.
- Nokinside 9y ago
  Nokia has no ownership in HMD Global who licensed Nokia brand for 10 years to make phones. Nokia gets license and patent fees from the deal. The future prospects of Nokia stock are tied to 5G network deployments. 5G deployments start already this year, but they will be slow at first. Things start move along 2019 when first 5G networks and devices (including phones) start to appear. 2020-2022 will show if Nokia is the winner in the battle for market share.
- alexdumitru 9y ago
  Nokia doesn't make phones anymore. These are sold by HMD Global, which I'm pretty sure is a private company.
addicted 9y ago
Who would have guessed that pairing the most popular mobile phone brand, with the most popular smartphone OS in the world would have led to success. Especially if they maintained the hardware quality the brand was renowned for? Clearly what they should have done is paired with a new OS with basically no base from a company that had failed in almost every consumer venture it embarked upon.
- Nokinside 9y ago
  .. financed and manfuactured by the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world: Foxconn. HMD Global is essentially Nokia - Foxconn partnership. Nokia never sold it's R&D division or patents to Microsoft. HMD global has full IPR access to everything from Nokia Research and all patents. Foxconn wants to reduce its dependence from Apple. 46% of Hon Hai's (Foxconn) revenue comes from Apple.
hsivonen 9y ago
Nice to see people choose phones that get security updates. I've had an opportunity to try Nokia 8 and Nokia 3. Basically go for the highest model number that you can afford. Nokia 8 is very good. No complaints that wouldn't apply to Pixel, too. Nokia 3 is remarkably good _for its €150 price_ (camera underwhelming, screen blue-tinted and unreliable wifi [at least with November software] compared to flagships, but in Europe unreliable wifi doesn't matter since you can stay on mobile data all the time, so better choose the security updates than a competitor with better wifi).
yalogin 9y ago
The shocking thing here is that Google sold less than 4.4 million smartphones in a quarter. Why is that? I thought with Google's brand name, they should be selling a good number of them. Don't they have affiliations with carriers? Can people only buy them on their site?
- paulddraper 9y ago
  People can buy them from carriers, at least Verizon I know. Google offers only one or two (differing in size not features) phones every year or so. A huge number of phone sales are not flagship phones, but <$300 ones.
- hsivonen 9y ago
  Dunno about Pixel 2, but Pixel 1 was remarkably hard to buy, since Google shipped it only to a handful of countries.
  - vesinisa 9y ago
    Same story, unavailable in all but the biggest markets.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > The shocking thing here is that Google sold less than 4.4 million smartphones in a quarter. Why is that? Google sells a couple flagship phones, no downmarket phones (they don't, AFAIK, even still sell their older flagships), and doesn't really market them heavily compared to the big players in the handset industry. I don't know if they have any carrier deals besides VZW. Compare this to Samsung, who currently has four flagships (S8/S8+/S8 Active/Note 8) and a dozens of downmarket phones plus still selling older flagship generations. Google isn't trying to compete across the whole spectrum of feature preferences and price sensitivity the way, say, Samsung is, and their unit sales reflect that.
- kuschku 9y ago
  The Google phones start around $900 in most countries, they only sell to like 5 countries, and they only partnered with a single carrier in the US. So, first of all, they don't sell in most countries where people would buy such expensive phones, and in the countries where people would buy these, Google either only sells through a single carrier, or through a web shop that requires a credit card. Which, for example, in Germany almost no one has (I think last time we discussed this @germanier linked a study showing 22% CC ownership?) Either way, they're limiting the people they sell to to a tiny market, and then they don't actually offer something special. The Pixel devices are some of the most expensive smartphones ever, but both special. They have the same waterproofing and features as a normal mid range phone, they have no exceptional warranty such as apple, they have no special software or hardware features like the Samsung Galaxy Note Series' Stylus.
russellbeattie 9y ago
Ex-Nokia employee here - I used to work directly for the CTO of Nokia. It's amazing, but unsurprising, to me the strength of Nokia's phone brand after all these years. There's a lot longer of a story to Nokia's decision not to use Android than most people realize. For example, Intel figured prominently, the Symbian vs. Maemo debate raged internally, discussions with Google were marred by massive cultural differences and arrogance on both sides. I'm surprised no one has written a book. For what it's worth, Windows Phone was actually an amazing platform for both users and developers, and shows a fundamental rule of technology: There Is No Third Ecosystsm. The most dominant hardware maker (at the time) and software/os maker teamed up with a really great product, but couldn't break the established smartphone duopoly, even though it was only a few years old by that point. I wasn't a Microsoft fan by any stretch (the opposite actually), but even I agreed with the decision at the time, especially after using Windows Phone. First mover advantage is huge, and developers only have so much bandwidth. Edit: Heh. Apparently someone did write a book. See comments below. Wow.
- baybal2 9y ago
  What office you worked in? I used to meet a lot of Nokia refugees in Vancouver and Seattle. Almost all retell the same story: C-Levels spending more time flying than on the ground, complete sturpor with platform development, internal sabotage in between internal symbian teams
  - xiphias 9y ago
    I heared the same thing, and I see the same thing happening to Google and Apple as well. Still I don't expect a manager who worked under the CTO to say this problem out loud
  - russellbeattie 9y ago
    I was in Palo Alto. Despite the name, the CTO of Nokia at the time was basically the head of Nokia Research, which was focused on fundamental research - like nanotech and low-power comms like Wibree (which became Bluetooth LE). This is a part of the company present-day Nokia kept when they split off the phone manufacturing bit. I don't think the CTO had much to do with the Android decision really. He used an iPhone daily anyways (no joke).
dqv 9y ago
I'm glad to hear they're doing well in the featurephone market. It's nice to have a phone that has great call quality, long battery life, and can actually play FM radio. I hope they keep selling in the US market.
samfisher83 9y ago
Nokia used to be where apple is today. They had a majority of the smartphone market share. It was a smaller market. They also dominated the feature phone market. It just shows you how fast things can change. This graph is pretty awesome in showing how big Nokia was: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GCu9SVwAE_n4N.png:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GCu9SVwAE_n4N.png:large
- srcmap 9y ago
  I remember the old "cool" cell phone platform cycles are 3-5 years. StarTac, Moto Razor, Nokia, Blackberry, etc. The current smartphone platforms probably will last a lot longer - probably because of the App ego systems. I was thinking that IPhone might drop off around 6 years after it was introduced.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  A graph of profit from phone sales would be interesting. Even inflation adjusted, I bet Apple blows everyone out of the water.
taoistextremist 9y ago
So will these phones ever support CDMA or is that just going to be ignored? I wonder how they're doing in the US specifically considering their phones can't be used on two of the larger carriers in the country.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Considering the Qualcomm monopoly on CDMA patents, why should they? CDMA is only used in a single country, one where Android is massively underrepresented, and it binds you to a single SoC vendor.
  - taoistextremist 9y ago
    >CDMA is only used in a single country As far as I'm aware, two Chinese carriers, China Mobile and China Telecom, use CDMA. China Telecom I believe for everything, China Mobile for its 3G (4G in general is a bit harder to come by there in my experience, so often the only option for mobile data is 3G).
    - kuschku 9y ago
      You mean WCDMA? That's usual. But the US uses CDMA instead of GSM for audio and SMS content.
      - taoistextremist 9y ago
        I was wrong about China Mobile, it is just WCDMA, but China Telecom is using CDMA.
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    > and it binds you to a single SoC vendor The next generation Intel modems will support CDMA https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/02/23/intels-new-lte-chip-could-gobble-up-all-of-qualcomms-iphone-business/#5728006eabbb https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/02/23/intels-n... > CDMA is only used in a single country And only on the legacy 3G networks of 2/4 major carriers at that. Even in the US, CDMA is on its deathbed.
bcoates 9y ago
I have an ailing 1020 that I'm dreading replacing. Are there any new user-serviceable phones on the market? or should I just keep doing the Ship of Theseus thing with Amazon greymarket parts until the phone market shakes out into less of a nightmare for users?
djhworld 9y ago
I bought a Nokia 3 a few months ago as a backup phone when my OnePlus-3T had to go in for repairs. Really nice little phone I thought, perfectly servicable for light usage and felt nice to hold. A bargain for the £100 or so that I paid for it.
ironjunkie 9y ago
Every single time there is an article about Nokia I cannot believe how little people actually know about Nokia, the company. * The cellphone division was entirely sold to Microsoft ages ago. * The cellphones coming out today is just a branding agreement with HMD. * The Nokia of today is a huge company (more than 100.000 people) that focuses on backbone networks and telecom services. Almost every single ISP and provider in the world is using Nokia tecnology. Every other core router or service router on Internet is a Nokia router (or Alcatel-Lucent router that was bought by Nokia couple years ago). I know the Name Nokia is not Hype like an Apple or Google, but there is very cool stuff happening in the Backbone telecom business.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  It is not hype, and it is not American, ergo it is not important...
- bahmboo 9y ago
  Apparently HMD is across the street from Nokia and is run be former Nokia execs. HMD gets the brand, Nokia gets the royalties. Almost like a step-subsidiary. Not sure what the agreement was with MSFT but certainly a great save of their IP and brand given the circumstances.
- jpalomaki 9y ago
  Nokia Bell Labs [1]. I think that's something. Pretty well done considering that they were in very deep troubles before selling the (worthless) mobile phone business to Microsoft for quite a nice price. [1] http://www.bell-labs.com http://www.bell-labs.com
cwyers 9y ago
For perspective. Apple shipped 77.3 million smartphones in Q4 2017. Samsung shipped 74.1 million. Huawei shipped 41.0 million. Xiaomi shipped 28.1 million. OPPO shipped 27.4 million. And everyone outside the top 5 shipped 151.3 million. So these figures mean that Nokia shipped roughly 3% of the not-top-five-brands in Q4. https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43548018 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43548018
monkeydust 9y ago
If Nokia could come up with a flagship competitor to Samsung s9 I would switch over in a heartbeat.
ZenoArrow 9y ago
I bought myself a new Nokia phone on the weekend, wanted a second handset so got myself a Nokia 3310 (the new model). Maybe some of that decision was based on nostalgia (my first phone was the original model), but I haven't regretted it. The funny thing is I found a new use for it after I bought it... it allows you to use a 32GB SD card in it, and has an MP3 player app. No big deal there. However, the battery life when just playing back MP3s is allegedly 51 hours! I'm pretty lazy when it comes to charging my devices so I was pretty happy to find that out. :-)
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Did your SIM fit right away?
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    Yes. Do you know of an issue with SIMs with this device? Just to be clear, I got the single SIM version rather than the dual SIM version (I didn't know the dual SIM version existed until a moment ago). https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310-dual-sim https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310-dual-sim
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Cool. I have one as well as 'backup' phone but my oldie's SIM is too large.
- abawany 9y ago
  I bought one too. It is a very nice device and the ability to import contacts from Android is very cool. If they ever got some tethering/hotspot ability, I would make a real effort to make it my daily driver.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    They are nice devices, I agree. With the tethering/hotspot ability, I think that may only be practical after a hardware refresh, as it's a 2G-only phone. Perhaps in future revisions it'll support 3G (or 4G).
diggernet 9y ago
Former Nokian here... If there are any HMD/Nokia folks reading this: Dedicated two-stage camera button. Bring it back. Please.

141 points by Nokinside 9y ago

abimaelmartell 9y ago

Didn't knew that Nokia still sells smartphones :O EDIT: added the still

icebraining 9y ago
Nokia has been selling smartphones since before the iPhone.
- robin_reala 9y ago
  Way before; the first S60 phone came out in 2002[1] and the original Communicator was from back in 96.[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7650 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7650 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator
zokier 9y ago
Strictly speaking Nokia isn't selling smartphones, HMD is. Nokia itself it primarily an IP company, the Nokia brand being part of that IP. Nokias business-model is about licensing their precious IP to other companies, in this case to HMD.
- ironjunkie 9y ago
  Not at all. There are more than 100k employees in Nokia as of today. Nokia is a B2B company that sells most of the backbone equipment for telecom (Those 4/5G stations, every other Service Routers or core routers out there, etc etc ). The acquisition of Alcatel-Lucent in 2016 helped a lot here.
  - zokier 9y ago
    Oh, right. To my defense, I feel like NSN always has been bit distanced from Nokia proper
  - kingosticks 9y ago
    To be fair, there is Nokia Networks and Nokia Technologies. IP licensing is a very big part of Nokia Technologies.

noureen 9y ago

They took "Never quit trying" to heart

romwell 9y ago
Must be that Finnish Sisu[1] at work. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
- rdtsc 9y ago
  First time I heard about. I like that they have a word for it and its fairly short, I might just start using it myself. I speak almost 4 languages and always fascinated by concepts that can't be directly translated. Also like that there is a scale applied to it and it can be a negative thing: --- [...] there can be too much sisu, and according to the survey answers this leads to bull-headedness, foolhardiness, self-centeredness and inflexible thinking. ---

digi_owl 9y ago

Wonder how much is brand recognition, and how much is the promise of firmware updates...

izacus 9y ago
Its say it's mostly really good pricing.

mtgx 9y ago

Where are all the Microsoft (and Symbian) fans saying how if Nokia adopts Android instead of Windows Phones it will fail badly...? (oh, the irony) It's still very early days for Nokia's rebirth, but just imagine if they had only switched to Android back in 2009/2010 when Nokia still had double Samsung's market share in all phones, and its brand meant a lot more than it does today, even if it's still quite not forgotten.

digi_owl 9y ago
Mostly it was the execs that didn't want to go with Android, because they feared they would end up just another me-to brand fighting over scraps. That said, it seems that much of what sunk Nokia back then was American pension funds pushing to turn a Finnish company American. In a way it was similar to when Stringer was put in charge of Sony, a culture clash of epic proportions...
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Thing is, so long as Nokia can be the best "me too" brand with immediate Android updates and long support lifespans, coupled with decent hardware design, they'll beat out nearly all their competitors. Do you really want to buy that HTC phone or midrange Samsung that will never see an update to Android 8? Generally not!
- addicted 9y ago
  "Mostly it was the execs that didn't want to go with Android, because they feared they would end up just another me-to brand fighting over scraps." I know this is what they claimed, but this made absolutely no sense. Windows Phone wasn't a closed OS available only to Nokia. Windows Phone would only make them another me-too brand fighting over even fewer scraps, but with an OS that was far more immature, had little to no user base, had little to no 3rd party support, and had a UI they could personalize even less than Android. With Android at the very least they could have had some differentiation by creating their own skins and launchers, etc. but Windows Phone did not allow them to do even that. And if they did not want to differentiate on OS, then why not go with the OS that had far more 3rd party support than the one that had virtually none?

petepete 9y ago

My next phone will be a Nokia, having exclusively bought Nexus devices since the Galaxy Nexus. Google's last few phones have been plagued with problems, and them withholding software from their niche hardcore fans was the last straw. If only Nokia had got in on the Android action earlier and realised that Symbian/Ovi wasn't up to it.

Nokinside 9y ago
I bought Nokia 3 when it came out because I needed a new phone and I just need a basic phone. I didn't do any deep feature comparison but I like it. 1. It's solid Android phone. 2. It's vanilla Android with frequent updates. No crapware and up to date.
- thinkloop 9y ago
  #2 is 90% of my requirements
  - gautamnarula 9y ago
    Vanilla Android with a decent camera. It is far too difficult to find a phone that meets those criteria.
    - StudentStuff 9y ago
      Have you tried the Google Camera mod? It brings those sweet lens blur shots to other android devices, I have to say it works well on the Nokia 6.
- dingaling 9y ago
  3. Reasonably easy to root, with a delockable bootloader and quick-to-flash TWRP and SuperSU
foepys 9y ago
Same here, even though they are a bit more expensive than the Google branded phones from two years ago and earlier. Nokia also sounded quite sad about not being able to put project Treble on the Nokia 8. Maybe because they now have to put in more effort into putting out Android updates but I welcome their strategy of bringing those updates to the consumer very fast. Sometimes even faster than Google.

agumonkey 9y ago

Not bad for a dead company. Uplifting :)

digi_owl 9y ago
Well this "nokia" is actually a different company wearing a mask. The part of Nokia that was making Symbian phones was sold of to Microsoft and is now long dead. The Nokia that remains is focused on mobile and wireless infrastructure. The company now making Nokia branded Android phones is actually HMD Global. That said, HMD is based basically across the road from Nokia and staffed with many former Nokia people.
- islanderfun 9y ago
  This is so confusing. I have to put some research into but I'm afraid of buying into a dying brand (thus no updates).
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Yes it's not totally the Nokia that Microsoft bought but it's still infused with legacy Nokia's blood. And also recapturing market share after such an accident is quite a surprise.

Theodores 9y ago

The 'Nokia' in this article is a brand, licensed and stuck on some phones made by some other people. So this is not 'real Nokia' in my opinion. However, an Apple product or a Google product that is actually made by an OEM (Foxconn/HTC/LG etc.) is 'real Apple' or 'real Google'. The problem with badge engineering is the badge.

rando444 9y ago
Is there any evidence these are low quality though? I bought a Lumia 720 which I used for 3 years and still works perfectly another 3 or 4 years later, although the Windows OS was lacking in many ways, the phone itself is engineered extremely well, drop resistant, and doesn't even require a case. I've broken more Samsungs than I can count in extremely short periods of time. If the Nokia quality is still there I would love to go back to Nokia.
- thereau 9y ago
  The Lumia phones were build by Nokia. The Android ones are build by HMD global
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    The quality is still there though, its definitely a phone you can rock with a minimal case, and if you don't mind it getting a little dinged up, no case is also fine.
- Zekio 9y ago
  The Nokia quality is very much still there, jerryrigeverything recommends the Nokia phones, since they are built like a tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aXkW0EFRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aXkW0EFRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvh3v1BkJ-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvh3v1BkJ-A
- FridgeSeal 9y ago
  Teardowns seem to indicate the build quality is definitely still there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M3Budnl3aI&feature=youtu.be&t=186 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M3Budnl3aI&feature=youtu.be...

romwell 9y ago

For what it's worth, my phone now is a Nokia 6. I was choosing between that and a Moto G5 Plus in the price bracket. Perhaps the Moto has better features, but the Nokia has a solid steel plate running through its entire body[1]. So, I could have had a better camera and battery on a Moto, or I could get the assurance that if I end up in a Star Wars garbage compactor scenario, I'd have something I could wedge into the damn doors to avoid being crushed completely flat. I went with the Nokia. [1] https://youtu.be/0M3Budnl3aI?t=186 https://youtu.be/0M3Budnl3aI?t=186

StudentStuff 9y ago
Nokia has been the timeliest about pushing out updates too, beating Google to the punch by a few weeks for the December Android security patches recently. Realistically, the Nokia 6 will probably have modern Android updates longer than any of the Nexus or Pixel line.
- Spare_account 9y ago
  Is this reliable? My choice of next phone wad going to be Pixel due to the importance I place on timely updates. Has Nokia committed to beating Google on terms of handset support lifetime?
  - Nokinside 9y ago
    Nokia phones have two years of Android updates guaranteed.
    - Grazester 9y ago
      Google is two prior to the Pixel 2. With the Pixel 2 they committed to three. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16403922/google-pixel-2-phone-android-update-schedule https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16403922/g...
    - nikanj 9y ago
      And how do you enforce that guarantee? I remember when they guaranteed years of updates for the Lumia 800, and then the Lumia 1020. If they stop the updates, you can participate in a class-action lawsuit, and get a Nokia ballpoint pen (ink not included) after eleven years.

Geee 9y ago

That's quite a surprise giving that Nokia 8 was quite disappointing in my opinion. I think they would've sold more without the 'bothie' gimmick, and just marketed their quality and security.

smnrchrds 9y ago

Is there a good brand of non-smart phones available in North America? Nokia had some models, but only in India and select other countries.

dejv 9y ago

Any thoughts on Nokia stock? I do own it as a small part of my portfolio and thinking about expanding my position.

Nokinside 9y ago
Nokia has no ownership in HMD Global who licensed Nokia brand for 10 years to make phones. Nokia gets license and patent fees from the deal. The future prospects of Nokia stock are tied to 5G network deployments. 5G deployments start already this year, but they will be slow at first. Things start move along 2019 when first 5G networks and devices (including phones) start to appear. 2020-2022 will show if Nokia is the winner in the battle for market share.
alexdumitru 9y ago
Nokia doesn't make phones anymore. These are sold by HMD Global, which I'm pretty sure is a private company.

addicted 9y ago

Who would have guessed that pairing the most popular mobile phone brand, with the most popular smartphone OS in the world would have led to success. Especially if they maintained the hardware quality the brand was renowned for? Clearly what they should have done is paired with a new OS with basically no base from a company that had failed in almost every consumer venture it embarked upon.

Nokinside 9y ago
.. financed and manfuactured by the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world: Foxconn. HMD Global is essentially Nokia - Foxconn partnership. Nokia never sold it's R&D division or patents to Microsoft. HMD global has full IPR access to everything from Nokia Research and all patents. Foxconn wants to reduce its dependence from Apple. 46% of Hon Hai's (Foxconn) revenue comes from Apple.

hsivonen 9y ago

Nice to see people choose phones that get security updates. I've had an opportunity to try Nokia 8 and Nokia 3. Basically go for the highest model number that you can afford. Nokia 8 is very good. No complaints that wouldn't apply to Pixel, too. Nokia 3 is remarkably good _for its €150 price_ (camera underwhelming, screen blue-tinted and unreliable wifi [at least with November software] compared to flagships, but in Europe unreliable wifi doesn't matter since you can stay on mobile data all the time, so better choose the security updates than a competitor with better wifi).

yalogin 9y ago

The shocking thing here is that Google sold less than 4.4 million smartphones in a quarter. Why is that? I thought with Google's brand name, they should be selling a good number of them. Don't they have affiliations with carriers? Can people only buy them on their site?

paulddraper 9y ago
People can buy them from carriers, at least Verizon I know. Google offers only one or two (differing in size not features) phones every year or so. A huge number of phone sales are not flagship phones, but <$300 ones.
hsivonen 9y ago
Dunno about Pixel 2, but Pixel 1 was remarkably hard to buy, since Google shipped it only to a handful of countries.
- vesinisa 9y ago
  Same story, unavailable in all but the biggest markets.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> The shocking thing here is that Google sold less than 4.4 million smartphones in a quarter. Why is that? Google sells a couple flagship phones, no downmarket phones (they don't, AFAIK, even still sell their older flagships), and doesn't really market them heavily compared to the big players in the handset industry. I don't know if they have any carrier deals besides VZW. Compare this to Samsung, who currently has four flagships (S8/S8+/S8 Active/Note 8) and a dozens of downmarket phones plus still selling older flagship generations. Google isn't trying to compete across the whole spectrum of feature preferences and price sensitivity the way, say, Samsung is, and their unit sales reflect that.
kuschku 9y ago
The Google phones start around $900 in most countries, they only sell to like 5 countries, and they only partnered with a single carrier in the US. So, first of all, they don't sell in most countries where people would buy such expensive phones, and in the countries where people would buy these, Google either only sells through a single carrier, or through a web shop that requires a credit card. Which, for example, in Germany almost no one has (I think last time we discussed this @germanier linked a study showing 22% CC ownership?) Either way, they're limiting the people they sell to to a tiny market, and then they don't actually offer something special. The Pixel devices are some of the most expensive smartphones ever, but both special. They have the same waterproofing and features as a normal mid range phone, they have no exceptional warranty such as apple, they have no special software or hardware features like the Samsung Galaxy Note Series' Stylus.

russellbeattie 9y ago

Ex-Nokia employee here - I used to work directly for the CTO of Nokia. It's amazing, but unsurprising, to me the strength of Nokia's phone brand after all these years. There's a lot longer of a story to Nokia's decision not to use Android than most people realize. For example, Intel figured prominently, the Symbian vs. Maemo debate raged internally, discussions with Google were marred by massive cultural differences and arrogance on both sides. I'm surprised no one has written a book. For what it's worth, Windows Phone was actually an amazing platform for both users and developers, and shows a fundamental rule of technology: There Is No Third Ecosystsm. The most dominant hardware maker (at the time) and software/os maker teamed up with a really great product, but couldn't break the established smartphone duopoly, even though it was only a few years old by that point. I wasn't a Microsoft fan by any stretch (the opposite actually), but even I agreed with the decision at the time, especially after using Windows Phone. First mover advantage is huge, and developers only have so much bandwidth. Edit: Heh. Apparently someone did write a book. See comments below. Wow.

baybal2 9y ago
What office you worked in? I used to meet a lot of Nokia refugees in Vancouver and Seattle. Almost all retell the same story: C-Levels spending more time flying than on the ground, complete sturpor with platform development, internal sabotage in between internal symbian teams
- xiphias 9y ago
  I heared the same thing, and I see the same thing happening to Google and Apple as well. Still I don't expect a manager who worked under the CTO to say this problem out loud
- russellbeattie 9y ago
  I was in Palo Alto. Despite the name, the CTO of Nokia at the time was basically the head of Nokia Research, which was focused on fundamental research - like nanotech and low-power comms like Wibree (which became Bluetooth LE). This is a part of the company present-day Nokia kept when they split off the phone manufacturing bit. I don't think the CTO had much to do with the Android decision really. He used an iPhone daily anyways (no joke).

dqv 9y ago

I'm glad to hear they're doing well in the featurephone market. It's nice to have a phone that has great call quality, long battery life, and can actually play FM radio. I hope they keep selling in the US market.

samfisher83 9y ago

Nokia used to be where apple is today. They had a majority of the smartphone market share. It was a smaller market. They also dominated the feature phone market. It just shows you how fast things can change. This graph is pretty awesome in showing how big Nokia was: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GCu9SVwAE_n4N.png:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GCu9SVwAE_n4N.png:large

srcmap 9y ago
I remember the old "cool" cell phone platform cycles are 3-5 years. StarTac, Moto Razor, Nokia, Blackberry, etc. The current smartphone platforms probably will last a lot longer - probably because of the App ego systems. I was thinking that IPhone might drop off around 6 years after it was introduced.
lotsofpulp 9y ago
A graph of profit from phone sales would be interesting. Even inflation adjusted, I bet Apple blows everyone out of the water.

taoistextremist 9y ago

So will these phones ever support CDMA or is that just going to be ignored? I wonder how they're doing in the US specifically considering their phones can't be used on two of the larger carriers in the country.

kuschku 9y ago
Considering the Qualcomm monopoly on CDMA patents, why should they? CDMA is only used in a single country, one where Android is massively underrepresented, and it binds you to a single SoC vendor.
- taoistextremist 9y ago
  >CDMA is only used in a single country As far as I'm aware, two Chinese carriers, China Mobile and China Telecom, use CDMA. China Telecom I believe for everything, China Mobile for its 3G (4G in general is a bit harder to come by there in my experience, so often the only option for mobile data is 3G).
  - kuschku 9y ago
    You mean WCDMA? That's usual. But the US uses CDMA instead of GSM for audio and SMS content.
    - taoistextremist 9y ago
      I was wrong about China Mobile, it is just WCDMA, but China Telecom is using CDMA.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  > and it binds you to a single SoC vendor The next generation Intel modems will support CDMA https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/02/23/intels-new-lte-chip-could-gobble-up-all-of-qualcomms-iphone-business/#5728006eabbb https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2017/02/23/intels-n... > CDMA is only used in a single country And only on the legacy 3G networks of 2/4 major carriers at that. Even in the US, CDMA is on its deathbed.

bcoates 9y ago

I have an ailing 1020 that I'm dreading replacing. Are there any new user-serviceable phones on the market? or should I just keep doing the Ship of Theseus thing with Amazon greymarket parts until the phone market shakes out into less of a nightmare for users?

djhworld 9y ago

I bought a Nokia 3 a few months ago as a backup phone when my OnePlus-3T had to go in for repairs. Really nice little phone I thought, perfectly servicable for light usage and felt nice to hold. A bargain for the £100 or so that I paid for it.

ironjunkie 9y ago

Every single time there is an article about Nokia I cannot believe how little people actually know about Nokia, the company. * The cellphone division was entirely sold to Microsoft ages ago. * The cellphones coming out today is just a branding agreement with HMD. * The Nokia of today is a huge company (more than 100.000 people) that focuses on backbone networks and telecom services. Almost every single ISP and provider in the world is using Nokia tecnology. Every other core router or service router on Internet is a Nokia router (or Alcatel-Lucent router that was bought by Nokia couple years ago). I know the Name Nokia is not Hype like an Apple or Google, but there is very cool stuff happening in the Backbone telecom business.

digi_owl 9y ago
It is not hype, and it is not American, ergo it is not important...
bahmboo 9y ago
Apparently HMD is across the street from Nokia and is run be former Nokia execs. HMD gets the brand, Nokia gets the royalties. Almost like a step-subsidiary. Not sure what the agreement was with MSFT but certainly a great save of their IP and brand given the circumstances.
jpalomaki 9y ago
Nokia Bell Labs [1]. I think that's something. Pretty well done considering that they were in very deep troubles before selling the (worthless) mobile phone business to Microsoft for quite a nice price. [1] http://www.bell-labs.com http://www.bell-labs.com

cwyers 9y ago

For perspective. Apple shipped 77.3 million smartphones in Q4 2017. Samsung shipped 74.1 million. Huawei shipped 41.0 million. Xiaomi shipped 28.1 million. OPPO shipped 27.4 million. And everyone outside the top 5 shipped 151.3 million. So these figures mean that Nokia shipped roughly 3% of the not-top-five-brands in Q4. https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43548018 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS43548018

monkeydust 9y ago

If Nokia could come up with a flagship competitor to Samsung s9 I would switch over in a heartbeat.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

I bought myself a new Nokia phone on the weekend, wanted a second handset so got myself a Nokia 3310 (the new model). Maybe some of that decision was based on nostalgia (my first phone was the original model), but I haven't regretted it. The funny thing is I found a new use for it after I bought it... it allows you to use a 32GB SD card in it, and has an MP3 player app. No big deal there. However, the battery life when just playing back MP3s is allegedly 51 hours! I'm pretty lazy when it comes to charging my devices so I was pretty happy to find that out. :-)

jacquesm 9y ago
Did your SIM fit right away?
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  Yes. Do you know of an issue with SIMs with this device? Just to be clear, I got the single SIM version rather than the dual SIM version (I didn't know the dual SIM version existed until a moment ago). https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310-dual-sim https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310-dual-sim
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Cool. I have one as well as 'backup' phone but my oldie's SIM is too large.
abawany 9y ago
I bought one too. It is a very nice device and the ability to import contacts from Android is very cool. If they ever got some tethering/hotspot ability, I would make a real effort to make it my daily driver.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  They are nice devices, I agree. With the tethering/hotspot ability, I think that may only be practical after a hardware refresh, as it's a 2G-only phone. Perhaps in future revisions it'll support 3G (or 4G).

diggernet 9y ago

Former Nokian here... If there are any HMD/Nokia folks reading this: Dedicated two-stage camera button. Bring it back. Please.