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It's not "Engineer thinks PM is a bozo", it's a post explaining a very concrete, objectively negative behaviour from the PM team. I've worked at companies where

by pdpi 9y ago

It's not "Engineer thinks PM is a bozo", it's a post explaining a very concrete, objectively negative behaviour from the PM team. I've worked at companies where that sort of behaviour was rampant, I've worked at places where it wasn't, and the difference in the end product is palpable. Second, even if it's just anecdotal, I have personally been experiencing issues with my tMBP at work that I haven't had with any previous laptops going back to a G4 iBook. Stuff like random crashes, parts of the screen failing to render properly, etc. IT says that they're experiencing more of that sort of complaint with the current gen than they have with others in the past. The "sensationalist anecdote-driven news cycle" is blowing things out of proportion, to be sure, but there does seem to be some measurable degradation in their Apple's standards as of lately.

jsight 9y ago
> It's not "Engineer thinks PM is a bozo", it's a post explaining a very concrete, objectively negative > behaviour from the PM team. I've worked at companies where that sort of behaviour was rampant, I've worked > at places where it wasn't, and the difference in the end product is palpable. Yeah, I'm not a fan of dismissing complains by saying that its normal for engineering to think that way about PM. There are different mindsets involved and it is definitely normal for them not to see eye to eye all of the time. It is also normal for them to want to prioritize things differently and there are some delicate balancing acts to be played between meeting legitimate engineering needs and pragmatically driving a product forward. But sometimes, the PM really is causing problems by preventing those things from happening or by getting in the way of his own objectives.
abalone 9y ago
> even if it's just anecdotal... there does seem to be some measurable degradation in their Apple's standards as of lately You just characterized anecdotal evidence as "measurable". That's exactly the logical fallacy at work here. Non-anecdotal evidence of Apple's quality standards: The super long iPad upgrade cycle. It's stretched out and impacting Apple's bottom line because >3 year old iPads still work perfect.
- exBarrelSpoiler 9y ago
  Like any large org, quality standards vary from product to product, just as they do from team to team.

by pdpi 9y ago

jsight 9y ago

> It's not "Engineer thinks PM is a bozo", it's a post explaining a very concrete, objectively negative > behaviour from the PM team. I've worked at companies where that sort of behaviour was rampant, I've worked > at places where it wasn't, and the difference in the end product is palpable. Yeah, I'm not a fan of dismissing complains by saying that its normal for engineering to think that way about PM. There are different mindsets involved and it is definitely normal for them not to see eye to eye all of the time. It is also normal for them to want to prioritize things differently and there are some delicate balancing acts to be played between meeting legitimate engineering needs and pragmatically driving a product forward. But sometimes, the PM really is causing problems by preventing those things from happening or by getting in the way of his own objectives.

abalone 9y ago

> even if it's just anecdotal... there does seem to be some measurable degradation in their Apple's standards as of lately You just characterized anecdotal evidence as "measurable". That's exactly the logical fallacy at work here. Non-anecdotal evidence of Apple's quality standards: The super long iPad upgrade cycle. It's stretched out and impacting Apple's bottom line because >3 year old iPads still work perfect.

exBarrelSpoiler 9y ago
Like any large org, quality standards vary from product to product, just as they do from team to team.