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Does this just boil down to faster BSB/account number transfers between banks? I feel they're a little to late to the party for PayPal-like payments to a email

Does this just boil down to faster BSB/account number transfers between banks? I feel they're a little to late to the party for PayPal-like payments to a email or number.

mixmastamyk 9y ago
Banking in ANZ is light years ahead of the US. Why on Earth would you want to use a potentially malicious rent-seeking third-party when you could send it directly bank to bank account for free? Looks like this is adding a convenience numbers/mapping to addresses and speeding the transfer time, which is welcome. Though I appreciated the nightly clearance because on a few occasions it gave me a chance to change the amount.
- dorian-graph 9y ago
  > Banking in ANZ is light years ahead of the US. And light years behind some other countries.
  - mstibbard 9y ago
    Out of curiosity, who is the world leader in banking? Going from Australia to the UK felt like going back in time 20 odd years.
    - dorian-graph 9y ago
      I'm not sure about world leader, but in Norway/Sweden, they've had things like PayID (Vipps and Swish), MFA, etc. for a bit.
      - mixmastamyk 9y ago
        Wikipedia mentions credit card linking and mobile apps, are those required? If so, would be negatives in my book.
    - noneeeed 9y ago
      When was that? I'm in the UK and I'm curious what I'm missing out on. I have mobile banking for everything, I can do almost instant (sub 30s) transfers between banks, we have contactless payment cards and Apple/Android pay support is ubiquitous, and we can do person to person transfers using a phone number (the horribly named "PayM"). What are we missing out on here that we should be pushing our banks for? I do see that there are a number of things that people just don't seem to use very much here, but that's less about the tech, and more that there just doesn't seem to be the demand, PayM being the big missed opportunity.
      - mstibbard 9y ago
        This is not exhaustive but it is what comes to mind. * Paper still required for most proof of identity/address etc. Particularly annoying almost all providers are pushing customers to move to online statements but then opening any new accounts still require paper * Wet signatures still considered king/stronger than other forms of identification. This has caused me issues as I barely ever need to sign and hence my signature is never consistent! * Took 5 weeks to open an everyday account upon arrival. Seems pretty standard for all ex pats I've talked to. If you are a UK local maybe you've never experienced this? * Slow to list pending transactions although based on other posts here I may be an outlier in this experience. I assume the new digital banks (Monzo etc) have improved this significantly * Having to specify that you want a contactless debit/credit card - do people really not want contactless cards? You can always just not use that function... * All the banking apps I've seen over here are terrible, unfortunately didn't get to try out any of the new digital banks. I assume CBA is probably still the king for mobile banking capabilities * When I first arrived there was no Android Pay or Apple Pay, but thankfully that did come in around mid to late 2016 EDIT: I also signed up to use PayM but never came across a single person that I needed to transfer money to/receive from that actually had PayM
        fat-chunk 9y ago
        I've been with monzo for close to a year now, and have been with their current account for the last couple of months, and in my opinion it solves pretty much every issue you have listed above. I couldn't go back.
MattPearce 9y ago
Yeah, the basic idea of it is faster payments + the ability to transfer to an email address/phone number/ABN. The value is in it being supported by all the various banks and being instant, so you can just log into your banking app and instantly transfer to someone's account using only their email address, for example. Source: I work on the account resolution service that is part of this.
- eggsome 9y ago
  Interesting. I am one of (what I assume to be) a very small subset of people that manged to enter their email address before there was any input validation. (my account is with one of the big four). Despite using internet banking my registered email address ends with @127.0.0.1 Would this prevent me receiving payments?
  - MattPearce 9y ago
    Ha, that's interesting - validation and normalisation is the responsibility of the banks so would depend on whether the bank of the person doing the lookup accepts it as a valid email address
- cm2187 9y ago
  I presume the identifier is only usable to receive payments not to pull payments? Why does it need to be a phone number or email. Doesn’t it just need to be a unique string?
  - MattPearce 9y ago
    Yeah, only for receiving for now as far as I'm aware. As far as the reason it's restricted to certain types, I'm not sure - I'm contracting at a subcontractor of SWIFT so we're down the pipeline at the implementation end of things, not much visibility of business decisions.
    - chris_wot 9y ago
      I think I know one of the QA people who work in your company. You’ve done a pretty amazing job from the little snippets I’ve heard of this project!
threeseed 9y ago
No it's more like PayPal in that your PayID can be email/mobile. But that said I would rather trust my bank than PayPal and to be fair I run into people all the time without an account.
thejosh 9y ago
Here in Australia, bank transfers are free between banks, but can take a couple of days to clear sometimes (same bank is instant). Heard horror stories elsewhere, but pretty good customer experience here in AU IMHO.
- adrian_mrd 9y ago
  Yeah bank transfers have always been reliable for me in sunny Australia but the issue pre-the NPP is the time it takes to transfer inter-bank and/or inter-credit union. It’s particularly a ‘problem’ when your payments are delayed by public/bank holidays (especially those that only occur in a bank’s home state!) and feels particularly anachronistic compared to modern payment gateways. Out of that $1bn AUD, probably half is on banker’s wages :P

Does this just boil down to faster BSB/account number transfers between banks? I feel they're a little to late to the party for PayPal-like payments to a email or number.

mixmastamyk 9y ago

Banking in ANZ is light years ahead of the US. Why on Earth would you want to use a potentially malicious rent-seeking third-party when you could send it directly bank to bank account for free? Looks like this is adding a convenience numbers/mapping to addresses and speeding the transfer time, which is welcome. Though I appreciated the nightly clearance because on a few occasions it gave me a chance to change the amount.

dorian-graph 9y ago
> Banking in ANZ is light years ahead of the US. And light years behind some other countries.
- mstibbard 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, who is the world leader in banking? Going from Australia to the UK felt like going back in time 20 odd years.
  - dorian-graph 9y ago
    I'm not sure about world leader, but in Norway/Sweden, they've had things like PayID (Vipps and Swish), MFA, etc. for a bit.
    - mixmastamyk 9y ago
      Wikipedia mentions credit card linking and mobile apps, are those required? If so, would be negatives in my book.
  - noneeeed 9y ago
    When was that? I'm in the UK and I'm curious what I'm missing out on. I have mobile banking for everything, I can do almost instant (sub 30s) transfers between banks, we have contactless payment cards and Apple/Android pay support is ubiquitous, and we can do person to person transfers using a phone number (the horribly named "PayM"). What are we missing out on here that we should be pushing our banks for? I do see that there are a number of things that people just don't seem to use very much here, but that's less about the tech, and more that there just doesn't seem to be the demand, PayM being the big missed opportunity.
    - mstibbard 9y ago
      This is not exhaustive but it is what comes to mind. * Paper still required for most proof of identity/address etc. Particularly annoying almost all providers are pushing customers to move to online statements but then opening any new accounts still require paper * Wet signatures still considered king/stronger than other forms of identification. This has caused me issues as I barely ever need to sign and hence my signature is never consistent! * Took 5 weeks to open an everyday account upon arrival. Seems pretty standard for all ex pats I've talked to. If you are a UK local maybe you've never experienced this? * Slow to list pending transactions although based on other posts here I may be an outlier in this experience. I assume the new digital banks (Monzo etc) have improved this significantly * Having to specify that you want a contactless debit/credit card - do people really not want contactless cards? You can always just not use that function... * All the banking apps I've seen over here are terrible, unfortunately didn't get to try out any of the new digital banks. I assume CBA is probably still the king for mobile banking capabilities * When I first arrived there was no Android Pay or Apple Pay, but thankfully that did come in around mid to late 2016 EDIT: I also signed up to use PayM but never came across a single person that I needed to transfer money to/receive from that actually had PayM
      - fat-chunk 9y ago
        I've been with monzo for close to a year now, and have been with their current account for the last couple of months, and in my opinion it solves pretty much every issue you have listed above. I couldn't go back.

MattPearce 9y ago

Yeah, the basic idea of it is faster payments + the ability to transfer to an email address/phone number/ABN. The value is in it being supported by all the various banks and being instant, so you can just log into your banking app and instantly transfer to someone's account using only their email address, for example. Source: I work on the account resolution service that is part of this.

eggsome 9y ago
Interesting. I am one of (what I assume to be) a very small subset of people that manged to enter their email address before there was any input validation. (my account is with one of the big four). Despite using internet banking my registered email address ends with @127.0.0.1 Would this prevent me receiving payments?
- MattPearce 9y ago
  Ha, that's interesting - validation and normalisation is the responsibility of the banks so would depend on whether the bank of the person doing the lookup accepts it as a valid email address
cm2187 9y ago
I presume the identifier is only usable to receive payments not to pull payments? Why does it need to be a phone number or email. Doesn’t it just need to be a unique string?
- MattPearce 9y ago
  Yeah, only for receiving for now as far as I'm aware. As far as the reason it's restricted to certain types, I'm not sure - I'm contracting at a subcontractor of SWIFT so we're down the pipeline at the implementation end of things, not much visibility of business decisions.
  - chris_wot 9y ago
    I think I know one of the QA people who work in your company. You’ve done a pretty amazing job from the little snippets I’ve heard of this project!

threeseed 9y ago

No it's more like PayPal in that your PayID can be email/mobile. But that said I would rather trust my bank than PayPal and to be fair I run into people all the time without an account.

thejosh 9y ago

Here in Australia, bank transfers are free between banks, but can take a couple of days to clear sometimes (same bank is instant). Heard horror stories elsewhere, but pretty good customer experience here in AU IMHO.

adrian_mrd 9y ago
Yeah bank transfers have always been reliable for me in sunny Australia but the issue pre-the NPP is the time it takes to transfer inter-bank and/or inter-credit union. It’s particularly a ‘problem’ when your payments are delayed by public/bank holidays (especially those that only occur in a bank’s home state!) and feels particularly anachronistic compared to modern payment gateways. Out of that $1bn AUD, probably half is on banker’s wages :P